Comparing new trains - 195 vs 755

[Adrian1980uk]

The 755s are a real upgrade on the 170s they replace on the Cambridge line, feel much more
Solid and better fit for a regional city link

 

[XAM2175]

Only worry I'd have would be the ability of the gap fillers and lower level floors to cope with some of Northern's somewhat irregular platform edges - and their serviceability in long term service. Another thing to go wrong?

They're fitted with detectors that prevent them striking platform edges.

 

[Killingworth]

They're fitted with detectors that prevent them striking platform edges.

But how well do they cope with very low platforms set back some way from the track? And how durable will the system be in all weathers over time? I'm all in favour but fear units may be out of service due to retraction faults. Presumably trials have ensured they are reliable.

 

[XAM2175]

But how well do they cope with very low platforms set back some way from the track? And how durable will the system be in all weathers over time? I'm all in favour but fear units may be out of service due to retraction faults. Presumably trials have ensured they are reliable.

Well, once they reach the limit of their extension there's nothing more they can do - but that's still better than nothing.

As to their reliability; they've been in use extensively on the continent for over a decade now, which I have to assume counts for something. I also believe there is a procedure for manually forcing their retraction in the event of a failure, but I can't say for certain exactly what it is.

 

[Killingworth]

Well, once they reach the limit of their extension there's nothing more they can do - but that's still better than nothing.

As to their reliability; they've been in use extensively on the continent for over a decade now, which I have to assume counts for something. I also believe there is a procedure for manually forcing their retraction in the event of a failure, but I can't say for certain exactly what it is.

Small children have almost fallen down here. I've seen a small dog on lead being dragged back up by it's collar, and one owner dived under the train to rescue hers! We can't get gap fillers fast enough - but another 25 years?

 

[XAM2175]

Small children have almost fallen down here. I've seen a small dog on lead being dragged back up by it's collar, and one owner dived under the train to rescue hers! We can't get gap fillers fast enough - but another 25 years?

The lower floor level of a FLIRT will reduce the vertical separation, and the gap filler will mean that the remaining height difference can be handled by a passenger making a small step up, rather a large step up and forward.

Failing that, you raise the platform.

 

[Sprinter107]

Class 755 for me. Been on a few now, and reckon theyre superb units. 195 feels cheap and tacky by comparison.

 

[DustyBin]

Not an EPB
Not an HST
Not a 442
Not a 365

All valid criticisms though, especially the first.

 

[Grumpy Git]

195 feels cheap and tacky by comparison.

Probably because it almost certainly is. The Swiss are not known for producing anything but well designed and quality gear (and I'm aware some were built in Poland, but look at what Honda & Toyota did for British car manufacturing quality).

You only have to go into a Swiss hardware/tool shop to see they only sell quality Swiss and German gear not like the Chinese rubbish you get in our country, it makes me want to cry.

 

[superkev]

Probably because it almost certainly is. The Swiss are not known for producing anything but well designed and quality gear (and I'm aware some were built in Poland, but look at what Honda & Toyota did for British car manufacturing quality).

You only have to go into a Swiss hardware/tool shop to see they only sell quality Swiss and German gear not like the Chinese rubbish you get in our country, it makes me want to cry.

We should be carefull about such thoughts about Chinese rubbush. Im old enoogh th remember when the same was said about Japanese the then Korean bikes and cars etc and look what happened there.
If yiu pick the cheapest you will get what you paid for.
Personality I believe Stradlers level boarding trains have made all othe trains obsolete. Just like the invention of the Dreadnought battleship rendering all previous a premature trip to the scrap yard.
K

 

[TheEdge]

Well, once they reach the limit of their extension there's nothing more they can do - but that's still better than nothing.

As to their reliability; they've been in use extensively on the continent for over a decade now, which I have to assume counts for something. I also believe there is a procedure for manually forcing their retraction in the event of a failure, but I can't say for certain exactly what it is.

They've got little bars that hang underneath the step that stop them overextending over a low platform. They keep getting mentioned on here because people think they are broken with bits hanging off.

If they fail to retract its just a matter of isolating them and pushing them in, then re-energising and locking them in place. Worth noting the door and step need to be locked out together, they are one and the same as far as door interlock is concerned.

 

[XAM2175]

If they fail to retract its just a matter of isolating them and pushing them in, then re-energising and locking them in place. Worth noting the door and step need to be locked out together, they are one and the same as far as door interlock is concerned.

I thought it might be like that. Cheers.

 

[RailWonderer]

I've travelled on several 195s now and more 755s (since they are much more local to me) and the build quality is unquestionably better on the latter and at 100mph line speed be it on diesel or overhead AC they cruise solidly with no rattling panels or floors like on the 195s when at line speed Preston - Oxenholme. That said, the 195s are fine on many shorter routes they operate and are still a revolution from Sprinters and Pacers. The main problems are tiny litter bins located on the floor (although this beats the class 720s complete lack of any bins leading to rubbish laid all over the floor) and the ironing boards are only horrible for the abolute longest of routes they run, and even those aren't likely to be travelled on end to end by many.

The CAFs do the job and bar for the 100mph stretches and 2 hour + hauls, they are fine. I imagine much of the disappointment comes from enthusiasts who wish they had our Anglia Stadlers which I admit I feel we are very lucky to have.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The CAFs do the job and bar for the 100mph stretches and 2 hour + hauls, they are fine. I imagine much of the disappointment comes from enthusiasts who wish they had our Anglia Stadlers which I admit I feel we are very lucky to have.

Pre-lockdown I was doing a round trip to Manchester on them 5 times a week. 45 minutes each way, never over 70mph, and they are not OK. To paraphrase an old boss of mine, the 195s being lauded as “better than a Pacer or 150” merely makes them the tallest dwarf

 

[trebor79]

Small children have almost fallen down here. I've seen a small dog on lead being dragged back up by it's collar, and one owner dived under the train to rescue hers! We can't get gap fillers fast enough - but another 25 years?

About 30 years ago I did witness a child fall between the gap between train and platform. It was a class 10x and the guard had just done the buzz buzz with the train starting to move. Fortunately guard was on the ball and managed to stop the train in time. Slipped down and retrieved the boy, buzz buzz and they were away. I guess these days the job would be stopped for investigations etc.
Even as an 8-ish year old I did have a heart in mouth moment though!

 

[HSTEd]

The 755 is the sensible choice given that they eliminate diesel operation 25kV fitted track.

Significant reductions in near term fuel consumption could be achieved using them.

 

[trebor79]

The 755 is the sensible choice given that they eliminate diesel operation 25kV fitted track.

Significant reductions in near term fuel consumption could be achieved using them.

Agree.
And they are lovely trains to travel on as well. If you like thrash you can sit near the power unit. If you like EMU sounds sit near the ends over the powered bogies. If you want to pretend you're on hauled stock sit almost anywhere else for peace and quiet. Good number of tables, wifi, power at every seat. Nice and spacious and the raised seating areas are quite nice even though they're over the bogies. Still hear people remarking on how nice they are, almost 2 years after they first started appearing in service.

 

[SuspectUsual]

power at every seat

There's something else.

Northern publicise “power at every seat”, which is technically true but actually one plug socket per two seats. On a 755 it’s one plug and one USB per two seats.

 

[RailWonderer]

Pre-lockdown I was doing a round trip to Manchester on them 5 times a week. 45 minutes each way, never over 70mph, and they are not OK. To paraphrase an old boss of mine, the 195s being lauded as “better than a Pacer or 150” merely makes them the tallest dwarf

What problems did you have exactly, the seats, the ride quality or something else?

 

[SuspectUsual]

What problems did you have exactly, the seats, the ride quality or something else?

All the stuff the 755 is better at really. But the worst is the ride quality, it’s horrific, and they sound like they’re shaking themselves to bits

 

[Doomotron]

Not an EPB
Not an HST
Not a 442
Not a 365

Bingo!

 

[yorksrob]

A class 195 is better than a class 150/153/156, after that there is nothing positive to add.

Does the 2 carriage 195 have as much seating as a 156 ?

If not, then it's not better I'm afraid.

They should have been built as 3 carriage units or not at all as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Neptune]

Does the 2 carriage 195 have as much seating as a 156 ?

If not, then it's not better I'm afraid.

They should have been built as 3 carriage units or not at all as far as I'm concerned.

No they don’t however they have greater capacity with the large doorways with stand back areas. They also have air conditioning, are much quieter and have cleaner and more efficient engines with superior acceleration which is a step up from a 156.

I agree that they should have all been built as 3 cars and even some built as 4 car units for busier corridors such as the Calder Valley line and Windermere.

 

[yorksrob]

No they don’t however they have greater capacity with the large doorways with stand back areas. They also have air conditioning, are much quieter and have cleaner and more efficient engines with superior acceleration which is a step up from a 156.

I agree that they should have all been built as 3 cars and even some built as 4 car units for busier corridors such as the Calder Valley line and Windermere.

Adequate seating capacity is the main requirement for the passenger experience. The other things mentioned are pretty subjective.

 

[MattRat]

I've yet to experience the joys of a 755, but they look fantastic, and I wonder how they compare in terms of leasing and running costs with other regional trains. I certainly hope we end up with something that good when ScotRail think about replacing the 15x DMUs on their long rural routes, with a thrash pod powered by batteries/hydrogen/bionic duckweed etc.

I'm sure I saw somewhere the 156s would be replaced by cascaded 170s, but I can't remember for the life of me where I saw it. I also can't remember what the 170s were supposed to be replaced by, so maybe you should campaign for the 755 to be their replacement.

150 and 153 yes. 156 no.

Hard disagree there. Although I agree the 156s are a cut above the other 2, every time I get on a 195 now, despite their flaws, I'm thinking about how glad I am that I'm not on anything from the Sprinter family, maybe barring the 158.

I always thought the main problem was capacity. Which the 195s sort of sort out with their 3 car units, although for some reason they built some 2 car units too. At least for Northern, 2 car makes no sense, and I always watch in amazement whenever I see the 2 car 150 from Manchester pull in, and enough people get out to fill a 4 car set.