Commission

[All Line Rover]

I actually find that quite insulting!

What you are saying is totally untrue and not accurate in the slightest, No guard is going to risk their job for a few pence, to say so is ridiculous and an insult to 99.9% of Conductors

I'm not trying to insult any guard at all. I'm sure all guards on this forum are absolutely excellent! It's the 0.01% of guards that insult the rest!
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Experience is rhetoric. Evidence is a properly conducted quantative experiment to see if what you say is true (I doubt it!).

It would be almost impossible to quantify a subjective, qualitative issue such as this.
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All I'm saying is that, from a customer's point of view (i.e. me - a customer!), I think we'd be better off without commission. Then I could rest assured that ALL guards (including the 0.01%) are completely impartial when selling tickets, and are reasonable when dealing with customers who have invalid tickets. There MUST be some other sort of way to "encourage" guards to do regular ticket checks.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would be almost impossible to quantify a subjective, qualitative issue such as this.

That's right.

So you have no proof. Just your experience.

 

[cuccir]

Experience is rhetoric. Evidence is a properly conducted quantative experiment to see if what you say is true (I doubt it!).

Evidence can be qualitative and or anecdotal, it is just to be judged in a different way. Sometimes qualitative evidence is better!

ALR - I don't agree with you. Guards work hard and if a little more of my fare goes to a worker rather than a corporation then I'm happy.

Also your argument appears to be that as there is the potential for a small minority to abuse a rule, the rule should be removed. This is very similar to the anti-passenger arguments that are made seeking to remove passenger rights - eg split ticketing or breaks of journey - on the grounds that fare evaders might exploit them. Whether or not it is your intention, that makes your argument anti-rail

 

[Nym]

If someone came to me with a research paper with "From what I have seen" in any part of it, it would get thrown out.

If you don't have a proper research case conducted with a proper analysis, I don't think the opinion will be taken seriously.

 

[Greenback]

If someone came to me with a research paper with "From what I have seen" in any part of it, it would get thrown out.

If you don't have a proper research case conducted with a proper analysis, I don't think the opinion will be taken seriously.

Could a research paper be based on asklmg respondents what they have seen or experienced? The conclusion would still be base don anecdotal evidence!

 

[trentside]

All I'm saying is that, from a customer's point of view (i.e. me - a customer!), I think we'd be better off without commission. Then I could rest assured that ALL guards (including the 0.01%) are completely impartial when selling tickets, and are reasonable when dealing with customers who have invalid tickets. There MUST be some other sort of way to "encourage" guards to do regular ticket checks.

But you have no evidence that a 0.01% do abuse commission. As others have said, what you claim as "experience" isn't good enough. I very much doubt a guard has told you they're overcharging people just to get commission of a few pence. I doubt any guard would actually do that.

You keep arguing that commission makes guards unreasonable in their dealings with customers, I completely disagree - surely it motivates them to have more positive dealings. As I pointed out in my previous post, a customer with an invalid ticket should expect to be charged for a correct ticket. Harsh, maybe - but that's the rules. If the guard chooses to enforce that to avoid any problems later on, he's not doing anything wrong. That is not motivated by the few pence commission they'll earn, but no doubt a desire to keep themselves out of trouble with their employer.

 

[Nym]

I havn't seen anything that I would class as publishable evidence...

 

[TTI]

ATW also require us to remain at the door until we've left the platform.

Yes, sorry, most still (sensibly) do.
TPE, I have noticed, don't.

But it seems Northern are now going further by saying guards can only be at the very rear of the train to close doors and not be able to use any of the other door control panels that have been built-in, or modified on units over the years. Guards are simply unable to do anything other than the rear coach, or not at all

Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, then to the Merseyrail incident. Especially when the BTP investigation/due process has not been concluded. Are they saying they've been "doing it dangerously" over the last 7 years, or shall we now close all roads where pedestrians/cyclists/drivers die through their own recklessness or misfortune?


This is what will start to annoy passengers big-time in queueing/free rides for all when it becomes more widespread. I think its only the tip of the iceberg so far.

Does anyone know if Merseyrail have revised any instructions?

 

[cuccir]

If someone came to me with a research paper with "From what I have seen" in any part of it, it would get thrown out.

If you don't have a proper research case conducted with a proper analysis, I don't think the opinion will be taken seriously.

Could a research paper be based on asklmg respondents what they have seen or experienced? The conclusion would still be base don anecdotal evidence!

A little off topic.... but yes. Let's say you're researching the lives of migrants crossing a border. What's important is their experiences in using immigration services, living in temporary accommodation, perhaps using illegal srrvices etc. Though measuring the number of migrants is clearly important, so is the qualitative data!

Apologies once again for digressing...

 

[Bellwater]

How much Commission can you get on a £2 first class ticket, and how much extra if the purchaser doesn't want to sit next to anyone else?

 

[Nym]

10pence

 

[Bellwater]

That's disgraceful. I shall be writing to my MP...

 

[Nym]

What's more disgraceful is that someone who is able to write on a public forum on the internet can't calculate 5% of £2, I shall be writing to the education secretary about this!

 

[Bellwater]

Yes, as bad as Train Managers and Revenue Protection Inspectors getting no commission at all.

 

[Asian Demon]

Yes, as bad as Train Managers and Revenue Protection Inspectors getting no commission at all.

A companies policy on commission is their own to make and no amount of whining will change that. Yes there is a small minority who may use the incentive inappropriately but it is minuscule and generally routed out the moment it is found.

For most Guards/TM's/Conductors/whatever, revenue is dead last at their list of priorities as it should always be.

I have to say I've never understood this race to the bottom that everyone is so keen to push. Some people have benefits in their jobs and some better than others. Why is everyone so happy to make people who have something more than them just as miserable as those who don't. I'd say get off your high horse.

 

[Bellwater]

A companies policy on commission is their own to make and no amount of whining will change that. Yes there is a small minority who may use the incentive inappropriately but it is minuscule and generally routed out the moment it is found.

For most Guards/TM's/Conductors/whatever, revenue is dead last at their list of priorities as it should always be.

I have to say I've never understood this race to the bottom that everyone is so keen to push. Some people have benefits in their jobs and some better than others. Why is everyone so happy to make people who have something more than them just as miserable as those who don't. I'd say get off your high horse.

You've missed the Sarcasm me and Nym were trading for a few minutes, but as you've arrived to take the moral high ground I'll leave you to it.

Bellwater
(Waits for this to be Deleted)