Commission

[156441]

I'm lead to believe that conductors receive commission on on-board ticket sales. Does the amount vary between TOC's and does anyone know the average %age!

 

[cookiescrumble]

I believe it is usually around 5%.

 

[table38]

It was always suggested to me that if you wanted an ALR, you should seek out one of your favourite guards!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It is typically 5% on TOCs where guards havent sold their commission in pay talks. Dunno how many companies have sold it, I know of a couple of franchises which dont exist any more where they did (what has happened to the commission since is a mystery to me) but ultimately it led to guards checking tickets less often as one of the major incentives to do so was removed.

 

[mumrar]

It was always suggested to me that if you wanted an ALR, you should seek out one of your favourite guards!

Not all TOCs take part, and some that do attach stupid conditions. LM guards get 5% of all fares priced by LM - so commission off the three stop jobs but nothing off a Walsall-Exeter for example. Senior Conductors with XC have depot targets to achieve - first Target gets you 3.5% of all tickets you sold, second target gets you 5%. In reality, certainly at New Street, we rarely achieve this target and so get nothing.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

We have 5% but with Rent-A-Cop oops G4 practically everywhere its hard work making much (depends on the route etc.) also now due to the unfortunate demise of that young girl on the Merseyrail network we have to do the doors from the rear of the train, which seriously limits earning potential.

 

[francisoldfield]

we have 5% on our takings up to £2,000 then 8% on anything above that per month

 

[185]

At TPE ....6%

 

[All Line Rover]

It is typically 5% on TOCs where guards havent sold their commission in pay talks. Dunno how many companies have sold it, I know of a couple of franchises which dont exist any more where they did (what has happened to the commission since is a mystery to me) but ultimately it led to guards checking tickets less often as one of the major incentives to do so was removed.

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

It's bad customer service to sell tickets to customers?

 

[Minilad]

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

So would you prefer no commission for guards which in turn means less incentive to do ticket checks and therefore more people getting away with paying nothing ?

 

[scotsman]

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

Bull.

I was copped by a very pro-active Train Manager who allowed me to use tickets he believed were invalid, where he believed he could sell them. However, he soon realised the mistake and apologised (profusely).

 

[All Line Rover]

So would you prefer no commission for guards which in turn means less incentive to do ticket checks and therefore more people getting away with paying nothing ?

No, but some other form of "incentive" (which does not rely on selling x number of tickets) - e.g. do x ticket checks and get £x bonus (don't ask me how this could be enforced!) - would, in my opinion, be a better idea.

There are a few "desperate" guards out there, and the commission arrangement doesn't help!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bull.

I was copped by a very pro-active Train Manager who allowed me to use tickets he believed were invalid, where he believed he could sell them. However, he soon realised the mistake and apologised (profusely).

Except in my experience, not every guard does.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An even better idea would be to give every guard a pay rise, and hire someone to travel around to do some "uncover inspections."

 

[ainsworth74]

e.g. do x ticket checks and get £x bonus (don't ask me how this could be enforced!)

It's your idea so I think it's your responsibility to come up with a way of making it work! You're trying to change a system that nine times out of ten works fine, you're going to have to make a pretty strong case for making changes and just saying "someone else make my idea work" isn't going to cut it...

 

[All Line Rover]

Do Arriva guards get commission?

 

[Nym]

An even better idea would be to give every guard a pay rise, and hire someone to travel around to do some "uncover inspections."

Employ mystery travellers, only need to pay them £5/pop to check a service and pay expenses.

 

[Greenback]

An ATW guard has told me they get 3% commission which is paid twice a year, in June and December.

 

[185]

Arriva XC and Arriva TW were 5%, looks like ATW may have changed.

 

[Greenback]

Arriva XC and Arriva TW were 5%, looks like ATW may have changed.

I heard it was par tof the pay harmonisation between the former Northern, Central and W&W guards.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

If you work hard you get rewarded. What's wrong with that?

 

[Tracky]

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

Guards are profesional and as such put safety above revenue. When selling tickets guards are profesional and stick to the rules of impartial retailing.

 

[BestWestern]

I have a serious problem with guards earning commission on selling tickets, as if the main reason for checking tickets is to sell tickets and earn commission, guards may be inclined to sell tickets when doing so is inappropriate. From a customer's point of view, that is very bad customer service.

Put simply, you're way off beam on that one. I'm not entirely sure at what point you would consider a Guard selling a ticket on board a train to be "inappropriate"? If somebody is travelling on board a service and is not in possession of a valid ticket, the Guard is required to sell them a ticket, the fact that there are often situations where we offer people some leeway is entirely down to discretion and good nature. I think you'll find that actually most people's view is that proactive ticket checks and revenue enforcement are in fact good customer service, while bad customer service would be allowing the fare dodges to get away with it whilst others pay for their journey.

 

[RJ]

Not all TOCs take part, and some that do attach stupid conditions. LM guards get 5% of all fares priced by LM - so commission off the three stop jobs but nothing off a Walsall-Exeter for example. Senior Conductors with XC have depot targets to achieve - first Target gets you 3.5% of all tickets you sold, second target gets you 5%. In reality, certainly at New Street, we rarely achieve this target and so get nothing.

Down here, the LM guards get 5% of the first 100 tickets sold in a day, then 10% on everything else. Their main priority is the safety of the trains, they aren't required to check tickets.

I get 5% of whatever I sell - nice bit of pocket money at the end of the month .

 

[francisoldfield]

I don't think its all guards think about. the safety of trains is my priority and commission is just a nice 'extra'. I don't sell more expensive tickets when cheaper ones are the most applicable as that is wrong.

 

[156441]

Well it's opened up a good debate this! Glad I was barking up the right tree though! Thanks folks!

 

[175001]

As a guard, the safety of me, my train and its passengers is my priority, revenue comes in stone cold last.

Saying that, this week, I've been hounded by certain "passengers" about my lack of revenue on one service between two stops where there's only 2 minutes between them, and I was dealing with a safety issue in he cab at the time anyway, and then the other commented on that I had sold someone a CDS instead of a SDS, because they bought it off me on the train, when in fact, that passenger got on at an unmanned station with no TVM's etc.

You're damned for not doing tickets, then damned if you DO!

I'd like to see their faced if I commented on the job they do, and tell them how to do it

 

[francisoldfield]

well our on board performance is measure on the amount that you take in revenue so were much the same. and with trains that stop every 2-4 minutes its a bug*er to get through any train, much less sell tickets. that coupled with the fact that we have to ring through every failed debit or credit card now to make sure that it is authorised is really making life difficult.

despite this I had taken about £3k last month. just in time for Christmas as well!

 

[RJ]

As a guard, the safety of me, my train and its passengers is my priority, revenue comes in stone cold last.

Saying that, this week, I've been hounded by certain "passengers" about my lack of revenue on one service between two stops where there's only 2 minutes between them, and I was dealing with a safety issue in he cab at the time anyway, and then the other commented on that I had sold someone a CDS instead of a SDS, because they bought it off me on the train, when in fact, that passenger got on at an unmanned station with no TVM's etc.

You're damned for not doing tickets, then damned if you DO!

I'd like to see their faced if I commented on the job they do, and tell them how to do it

It doesn't matter what you say. A minority of people and supposedly pro-rail enthusiasts will use it as a reason to claim that the railways are doing their damnedest to rip everyone off. Some people are simply too stubborn to listen to reason so it's best not to waste time even trying to explain!

 

[spacehopper]

Despite popular opinion- commission, does not factor in the choice to charge for a SDR rather than a CDR or to not give a rail card discount. What do we have to gain an extra 0.003% but most certainly ear ache. TOC has a BBYB policy then we are expected to enforce it.

With gatelines, penalty fare zones, TVM, internet sales, smart ticketing, PTE zonal tickets, slower unreliable ticket issuing equipment, increase in those paying by card / useless card readers- fares sold and thus commission has significantly diminished down the years. Now you find your just checking tickets rather than selling them. Sometimes only ones you sell are for those with no railcard and the chancer going one stop. The moneys just not there for the taking anymore.

Management do look at what we've been taking but this doesn't show whole picture. Compare me to another guard who say works constant early shifts, puts in for all rest days and sundays going- his revenue takings are going to be higher than mine- but that doesn't make me a "lazy" guard. They also do average takings for a shift but no two shifts are the same. One day I could be up and down taking discounted PTE 35p pensioner fares and then do the same shift next day and get a first class return to London (if only!).

My route card means that chances of a nice little bonus each month just doesn't happen. Anyone know which depot is best for making commission- Barrow and Harrogate always get mentioned?

 

[All Line Rover]

It's your idea so I think it's your responsibility to come up with a way of making it work! You're trying to change a system that nine times out of ten works fine, you're going to have to make a pretty strong case for making changes and just saying "someone else make my idea work" isn't going to cut it...

Since ATW guards get commission, I'm not so sure about that! About 25% of the time there is no ticket check between Shrewsbury and Crewe, for example, even though a fair number of people board the train at intermediate stations.

Even though I accept that most guards are fine, a few guards will penalize customers who have made a genuine mistake, not because the guard is trying to "follow the rules," but because they want the commission.