Collision Iminent Emergency Brake

[rosswilson]

Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker and now decided to register an account in order to start posting

I came across this Youtube video today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TEkLZDElQ&feature=related it shows a train driver (apparently in a simulator) identify that a collision was imminent, jump from his seat, press a red mushroom style emergency brake and evacuate his cab.

What i'm wondering is is this a realistic thing to do if a collision was imminent. How are drivers trained to deal with an imminent head on collision?

Obviously this is a very unlikely and fortunately rare situation, and when faced with an oncoming train basic human instinct would be to get as far away as possible ...

Ross

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Schoolboy error on the drivers part there. If passengers see you come running out of the cab with a luck of panic on your face while the train is braking heavily then they will stand up and get in your way. Best to put the brakes in, calmly walk out the door and say "cya in a bit mate" to an empty cab allowing you to get past the people immediately behind the door before they block you.

 

[CliveJones]

I think drivers tend not to have time to do much if travelling at speed except duck and brake.

 

[O L Leigh]

There is no training as such, primarily because there isn't much actual chance of a heavy head-on collision as such incidents are thankfully very rare. It's more a matter of self-preservation. But that is more or less what I would do too. However, I wouldn't chance going too far down the train. I think I'd just try and find the first unoccupied rear-facing seat and take that.

Mind you, what you're likely to find in real life is that you open the cab door and find a pram or a small mountain of luggage has been stacked up on the opposite side.

O L Leigh

 

[43021HST]

There is no training as such, primarily because there isn't much actual chance of a heavy head-on collision as such incidents are thankfully very rare. It's more a matter of self-preservation. But that is more or less what I would do too. However, I wouldn't chance going too far down the train. I think I'd just try and find the first unoccupied rear-facing seat and take that.

Mind you, what you're likely to find in real life is that you open the cab door and find a pram or a small mountain of luggage has been stacked up on the opposite side.

O L Leigh

What do you do then, knock it all over and say, who left this B****** pile of crap here? I love how they bombard passengers with safety crapolla, but the driver just has to hope like hell that he survives the crash. The look on that drivers face though looks so fake that it could only be a cut price safety film.

 

[185]

185 cab-saloon doors flies open as soon as the stopcock is pressed, then shuts 5 seconds later. You can also pull the door slightly closed and it closes automatically straight away cancelling the timer delay.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Many a driver has saved his skin by fleeing behind the bulkhead doors, procedure or not. The driver at Southall is the first that springs to mind.

 

[rail-britain]

I remember many years ago a driver of a freight train was found walking towards the accident scene just as the emergency crews arrived
They had already started searching the impact area, but this was soon called off as the driver confirmed he had been driving, set the emergency brake, grabbed a set of clips, then jumped from the train at about 50mph
Knowing the route he knew had just one safe opportunity to do so, otherwise he would have had to have stayed in the cab and would be dead

Equally, he already phoned the signal box to confirm he had set the clips on the track as he had abandoned the train and would now walk back to the scene

 

[TDK]

I had a situation once on the approach to buffer stops with the train sliding - I thought I was going to hit them at first and got ready to jump from the cab I couldn't reach my keys for the cab door to the passenger compartment as they were in my jacket on the coay hanger - however this not so much panic but situation only lasted about 30 seconds when I realised I was going to stop - I never really knew or was trained on what to do but I know after that if a collision was iminent I would be out the cab in what ever way possible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember many years ago a driver of a freight train was found walking towards the accident scene just as the emergency crews arrived
They had already started searching the impact area, but this was soon called off as the driver confirmed he had been driving, set the emergency brake, grabbed a set of clips, then jumped from the train at about 50mph
Knowing the route he knew had just one safe opportunity to do so, otherwise he would have had to have stayed in the cab and would be dead

Equally, he already phoned the signal box to confirm he had set the clips on the track as he had abandoned the train and would now walk back to the scene

Have you got a link to this incident as it must have made the news if it was a serious collision like that?

 

[Dewedin]

Hi Everyone,

Long time lurker and now decided to register an account in order to start posting

I came across this Youtube video today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TEkLZDElQ&feature=related it shows a train driver (apparently in a simulator) identify that a collision was imminent, jump from his seat, press a red mushroom style emergency brake and evacuate his cab.

What i'm wondering is is this a realistic thing to do if a collision was imminent. How are drivers trained to deal with an imminent head on collision?

Obviously this is a very unlikely and fortunately rare situation, and when faced with an oncoming train basic human instinct would be to get as far away as possible ...

Ross

Surely as soon as the driver got up the emergency brakes would automatically apply anyway? Isn't there a footplate?

 

[GB]

You usually have 5 or 6 seconds before the brakes apply if you take your foot off the DSD. I don't know if there is much difference where the DSD is held via the hand not foot.

 

[strange6]

From Newtons laws of physics, I very much doubt you could apply an emergency brake like that and run off in the opposite direction unless you were some kind of Superman who could defeat inertia by running against it. What happens if you're in a car and the driver slams on? You go straight out of the windscreen! (Forward direction) hahaha It would be incredible training if people learned to do what he did lol

 

[Nym]

When I was on an emergency brake application (proberbly DSD failiure) on a 185, I could quite easilly stay upright, and wouldn't have found it hard to run toward the rear (if it wasn't rammed full)

 

[strange6]

When I was on an emergency brake application (proberbly DSD failiure) on a 185, I could quite easilly stay upright, and wouldn't have found it hard to run toward the rear (if it wasn't rammed full)

Well, I suppose you can't stop a train as violently as you can stop a car so the forces involved will not be has high.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

From Newtons laws of physics, . . . . . What happens if you're in a car and the driver slams on? You go straight out of the windscreen!

Even poor old Issac would have made allowances for the (nearly) one thousand times greater moving mass of a full-length train than a consumer motor car!
He may even have considered the comparative adhesion of treaded rubber tyres and smooth steel-on-steel.

It would be incredible training if people learned to do what he did lol

I think we should leave the training decisions to those who know their machines.

 

[OxtedL]

If you wiki the Cowden rail crash, the official report that links from it implies that the driver [who's fault it wasn't] of one of the trains died by being crushed (by an engine?) a good way into the carriage behind his cab. As both drivers and a guard died in the crash, no-one seems to be quite sure what happened, but it appears there was some warning.

The same report suggests that the poor Oxted signalman knew that the trains were going to crash and called the emergency in well before it actually happened as there was zilch he could do. Tragic.

 

[Mex]

Even poor old Issac would have made allowances for the (nearly) one thousand times greater moving mass of a full-length train than a consumer motor car!
He may even have considered the comparative adhesion of treaded rubber tyres and smooth steel-on-steel.

I think we should leave the training decisions to those who know their machines.

How quickly can a train decelerate with maximum braking, anyway?

Something I've always been morbidly curious about...

 

[BestWestern]

How quickly can a train decelerate with maximum braking, anyway?

Something I've always been morbidly curious about...

Not anywhere near as quickly as a road vehicle. It depends on the type of traction, the weight of the complete train and how recently the brakes were replaced etc, as well as the state of the railhead and the weather conditions, but travelling at speed you won't generally notice that a brake application is of the emergency variety until you get right down to very slow speed and stop, when it becomes apparent by the abrupt jolt. Under normal service braking a Driver will ease the brake on and off as you approach the point of stopping, so as to give a nice smooth halt, whereas an emergency brake application obviously doesn't do this. But you certainly don't get thrown from your seat as you would expect to in a car. BR always used to throw about the statement that an HST takes about a mile or so to stop from full whack, so that gives an idea.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

How quickly can a train decelerate with maximum braking, anyway?

I'm not adeqately informed to give you a precise answer, but an EC driver I'm well aquainted with has referred (in approximate terms) to 'about a mile'.
I daresay a 2-car local travelling at 40ish mph and a 10 vehicle long distance service on a downhill will require very different time-spans to come to a halt!

It raises the question, is there anything other than a bright red signal that is visible to a driver a mile ahead and which may be worthy of an emergency response?

 

[Nym]

Hitting it slower is slightly better, and it would be possible to see a track obstruction on a clear day at that kind of range.

When travelling at 85 though, a faulty ground frame isn't really visable, so you can't expect an application to be in time there...

 

[strange6]

Even poor old Issac would have made allowances for the (nearly) one thousand times greater moving mass of a full-length train than a consumer motor car!
He may even have considered the comparative adhesion of treaded rubber tyres and smooth steel-on-steel.

I think we should leave the training decisions to those who know their machines.

Like you so obviously do
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not adeqately informed to give you a precise answer, but an EC driver I'm well aquainted with has referred (in approximate terms) to 'about a mile'.
I daresay a 2-car local travelling at 40ish mph and a 10 vehicle long distance service on a downhill will require very different time-spans to come to a halt!

It raises the question, is there anything other than a bright red signal that is visible to a driver a mile ahead and which may be worthy of an emergency response?

A fire, obstruction on the line, kids playing in the vicinity .......

 

[ChrisCooper]

The average car will emergency brake at between around 0.8g and 1g. Performance cars will be more, with formula one cars braking at over 1g just by lifting off at top speed and about 5.5g maximum. Trains are closer to 0.1g, trams with track brakes will be getting on for 0.2g. Buses and lorries are around 0.5g maximum. Oviously it will depend on various factors as has been said. Of cource if you hit something then decelleration is likely to be much higher.

 

[strange6]

The average car will emergency brake at between around 0.8g and 1g. Performance cars will be more, with formula one cars braking at over 1g just by lifting off at top speed and about 5.5g maximum. Trains are closer to 0.1g, trams with track brakes will be getting on for 0.2g. Buses and lorries are around 0.5g maximum. Oviously it will depend on various factors as has been said. Of cource if you hit something then decelleration is likely to be much higher.

No wonder your F1 drivers have to be super fit to drive like that for 2 hours. I bet their bodies, and especially neck muscles, take a hell of a battering.

 

[HugePilchard]

Taking the car example, whenever I've had to jam on the anchors as a driver, I've not been thrown forward. Why? Because the upper half of my body knows that the lower half is standing on the brake, and braces for it! Passengers are a different matter - unless they've spotted the same obstruction as me and done some left-seat-braking (we all know someone who does it!), then they might not have the chance to brake.

Likewise, a driver fleeing the cab of their train would be able to brace against something sturdy (grabbing the back of their chair as they stood up and went for the door, or whatever) if they needed to get out - and that's not forgetting the fact that other posters have pointed out, that the G forces will be something like 1/10 of that in a car.

 

[strange6]

Taking the car example, whenever I've had to jam on the anchors as a driver, I've not been thrown forward. Why? Because the upper half of my body knows that the lower half is standing on the brake, and braces for it! Passengers are a different matter - unless they've spotted the same obstruction as me and done some left-seat-braking (we all know someone who does it!), then they might not have the chance to brake.

Likewise, a driver fleeing the cab of their train would be able to brace against something sturdy (grabbing the back of their chair as they stood up and went for the door, or whatever) if they needed to get out - and that's not forgetting the fact that other posters have pointed out, that the G forces will be something like 1/10 of that in a car.

Anyway, by the time you suss out an iminent collision is going to happen, it would be too late to do anything about it, never mind attempt to run out the cab

 

[Hydro]

I've never noticed an emergency brake application until under 10mph, then the brakes tend to give a good "bite" down to a halt, that's the part that knocks you about a bit and spills the tea.

 

[CarterUSM]

Anyway, by the time you suss out an iminent collision is going to happen, it would be too late to do anything about it, never mind attempt to run out the cab

Not all the time. See Largs crash, Driver made himself scarce there, and got through the 2 doors from cab to coach before impact.

 

[strange6]

Not all the time. See Largs crash, Driver made himself scarce there, and got through the 2 doors from cab to coach before impact.

Glad to see he took the correct action and made it

 

[jopsuk]

No wonder your F1 drivers have to be super fit to drive like that for 2 hours. I bet their bodies, and especially neck muscles, take a hell of a battering.

take a look at the necks of F1 drivers- they've all got huge muscles there, it's quite odd once you notice

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I've never noticed an emergency brake application until under 10mph, then the brakes tend to give a good "bite" down to a halt, that's the part that knocks you about a bit and spills the tea.

Agreed!

I've only experienced 2 in the past year, and if it hadn't been for the unusual location, the breaking would not have attracted my attention. But, yes, the last 'bite', as you put it, is quite distincive and unlike the progressive and cautious braking which a driver would adopt for any other stop.