Club Avanti

[mq90]

Have just fallen foul of the Club Avanti "can only have two journeys in a day" secret rule. Three of us travelled from Chester to London return and came back four days later, but only two credits.

Up there with Penrith to Warrington sometimes being credited, sometimes not.

The 10% off advance having to be used separately to other bookings in the basket - is it not possible to just discount one of the tickets rather than me having to book two times and then use the seat picker to fudge that we are together.

And lastly the totally unusable Standard Premium reward from Chester (costs me more to book to Crewe and use it from there as there are two of us on a 2 together) - just let me use it in Standard!

Actually do think it is a good idea, just needs some tinkering

That first one is very frustrating. Booked a day return to Birmingham for myself and a few friends to go to the football and only got two trips out of it.

I used the reward last August at three weeks notice, free return to Carlisle from Euston at two week's notice which would have cost me upwards of £200 normally so can't grumble at that.

 

[MKB]

How can they have a "secret rule". If it's not in the t&cs, it's not a rule, surely?

I had Nuneaton to Chester, booked using only Avanti services and which t'internet tells me is just over 81 miles, rejected. Eventually I got the credits, but it took three months of back-and-forth.

 

[Belperpete]

That first one is very frustrating. Booked a day return to Birmingham for myself and a few friends to go to the football and only got two trips out of it.

I used the reward last August at three weeks notice, free return to Carlisle from Euston at two week's notice which would have cost me upwards of £200 normally so can't grumble at that.

What is equally frustrating is that they don't say that the free tickets aren't available on all Avanti routes. For example, I tried in vain to book either first or standard premium from Bangor to London. In the end, I found I could only book the free ticket from Crewe, and had to pay for a ticket on the same train from Bangor to Crewe. Once the train got to Crewe, I transferred seat. Okay, I got the bit from Crewe to London free, but my journey from Bangor to London was far from free.

With all the restrictions, such as the lounge pass that is only valid for one visit!, the whole scheme leaves a sour impression that the rewards are begrudgingly given.

 

[38Cto15E]

If you are in SP on a freebie, can you pay to upgrade to First so that you can have something to eat or drink.
If you can how are the costs worked out, surely it will cost more from Euston to Carlisle than it would for Rugby to Warrington BQ.
I have 2 SP returns in my account at the moment, the first has to be used by July 2026.

 

[sot]

If you are in SP on a freebie, can you pay to upgrade to First so that you can have something to eat or drink.
If you can how are the costs worked out, surely it will cost more from Euston to Carlisle than it would for Rugby to Warrington BQ.
I have 2 SP returns in my account at the moment, the first has to be used by July 2026.

They may moan about excessing a ticket paid for by (W)arrant, but several complaints after might get you more.

Also is the pricing actually any good to do that? I mean you will be excessing to full price first class single from your advance purchase standard premium freebie.

Would imagine any excess fare payable would be better spent in a supermarket at either end.

 

[Russel]

What is equally frustrating is that they don't say that the free tickets aren't available on all Avanti routes. For example, I tried in vain to book either first or standard premium from Bangor to London. In the end, I found I could only book the free ticket from Crewe, and had to pay for a ticket on the same train from Bangor to Crewe. Once the train got to Crewe, I transferred seat. Okay, I got the bit from Crewe to London free, but my journey from Bangor to London was far from free.

With all the restrictions, such as the lounge pass that is only valid for one visit!, the whole scheme leaves a sour impression that the rewards are begrudgingly given.

There is no Standard Premium on the IET units used on the North Wales routes, is there?

The lounge pass doesn't state that it is valid for multiple uses, which would imply it's only single use.

It's all pretty clear in all honestly, I don't see anything to leave a sour taste, I've had a free first class journey to Glasgow, a free standard premium journey down to London and a couple of free coffees over the last 12 months, all of which I wouldn't otherwise have had, so I'm actually grateful...

 

[Belperpete]

There is no Standard Premium on the IET units used on the North Wales routes, is there?

Correct. Making my free standard premium pass useless unless I purchase a ticket to Crewe. And that doesn't explain why I also can't use my first class pass on the North Wales route.

The lounge pass doesn't state that it is valid for multiple uses, which would imply it's only single use.

It states that it is valid for a year, which implies that you can use it for a year, not just once.

It's all pretty clear in all honestly, I don't see anything to leave a sour taste, I've had a free first class journey to Glasgow, a free standard premium journey down to London and a couple of free coffees over the last 12 months, all of which I wouldn't otherwise have had, so I'm actually grateful...

It cost me almost as much as I would normally pay to get to London in order to use my "free pass", so I feel decidedly conned.

 

[Russel]

Correct. Making my free standard premium pass useless unless I purchase a ticket to Crewe. And that doesn't explain why I also can't use my first class pass on the North Wales route.

Not being able to book First class is odd, or were you trying to book less than the 7 days in advance required, had the first advance fares sold out when you tried to book?

It states that it is valid for a year, which implies that you can use it for a year, not just once.

I've just check mine, it depends how you read it, but to me it's clear it's almost certainly a single use offer.

"Free First Class Lounge pass
Expires 29 June 2026"

Edit, I've just had a look in the FAQ section regarding this point, all the information you need is there...

"One First Class Lounge pass: You will receive this reward once you reach Platinum tier and is a one time use pass for London Euston only. (Once 21 qualifying journeys have been completed)"

It cost me almost as much as I would normally pay to get to London in order to use my "free pass", so I feel decidedly conned.

You have options here, book a normal standard advance single to Crewe etc to lower the cost, you aren't being conned at all.

Admittedly, Club Avanti benefits those of us that live on the core Avanti WCML routes more, but you're still being given something for free, which they don't have to do.

 

[Huntergreed]

I think it’s a tale of two halves. For me, living near Carlisle, it’s an excellent value scheme. 10 or so return trips from Carlisle to Glasgow or Preston (often less than £10 each way advance) and I’ve racked up both a free SP and free First return to London.

I definitely think some improvements could be made, the most obvious of which is making the gold award available to redeem in either standard premium or standard class.

I’d be curious to know just how many platinum members there are. I do wonder whether they’d be able to allow unlimited lounge visits for the highest tier (or even per 5 qualifying journeys after 21 or something along those lines). I’ve never seen any of their lounges absolutely rammed and this would definitely encourage travel beyond the 21 journeys. At the moment, after reaching 21 trips, there’s no real benefit or incentive to continue to travel with Avanti over other operators.

 

[Russel]

I'm almost at Gold membership, what do I get for that?

I've had a skim through the Club Avanti page but can't actually see anything, unless I'm overlooking it!

Edit, ignore this, I've just found the information!

Turns out my membership has reset so I'm now back to sliver membership, from platinum.

 

[sh24]

I like the scheme. it has some quirks but for spend I'd already be making I'm happy to take 1 or 2 free tickets a year, the 10% discount and the lounge pass. The lack of capacity controls for the free tickets makes it great value.

 

[Belperpete]

Not being able to book First class is odd, or were you trying to book less than the 7 days in advance required, had the first advance fares sold out when you tried to book?

You have options here, book a normal standard advance single to Crewe etc to lower the cost, you aren't being conned at all.

Admittedly, Club Avanti benefits those of us that live on the core Avanti WCML routes more, but you're still being given something for free, which they don't have to do.

As I said before, I was able to book first class on exactly the same train, if I booked from Crewe. But it would not accept my free pass if I tried booking from Bangor. I tried various trains and dates, and every time it would not accept bookings from Bangor. In the end, I had to pay for first class advances for the journeys between Bangor and Crewe, and only got the Crewe to London portion for free. So obviously I was booking more than 7 days in advance, and obviously the first class hadn't sold out.

The hype about all the benefits of free tickets and a lounge pass valid for a year that encouraged me to join and book with Avanti turned out to be a total mirage. I have to pay to use the free passes (and pay almost as much as I would usually pay to travel from Bangor in the first place!). And the year's lounge pass is only valid for one visit (and the freebies available in the lounge were laughable - the bar of chocolate was smaller than those you could buy for 1/2d, and the bag of crisps had six whole crisps in it!). Yes, I am being given something for free, but it feels much like being given free gruel.

It feels much like the marketing department have come up with a good publicity tool, that the scrooges in the finance department have clawed back. The end result being something that rather than making Avanti look good, makes them look like the grinch.

 

[Russel]

As I said before, I was able to book first class on exactly the same train, if I booked from Crewe. But it would not accept my free pass if I tried booking from Bangor. I tried various trains and dates, and every time it would not accept bookings from Bangor. In the end, I had to pay for first class advances for the journeys between Bangor and Crewe, and only got the Crewe to London portion for free. So obviously I was booking more than 7 days in advance, and obviously the first class hadn't sold out.

Only trying to help, no need to take that tone...

I didn't know about the 7 day rule the first time I tried to book a free journey, hence why I asked.

The hype about all the benefits of free tickets and a lounge pass valid for a year that encouraged me to join and book with Avanti turned out to be a total mirage. I have to pay to use the free passes (and pay almost as much as I would usually pay to travel from Bangor in the first place!). And the year's lounge pass is only valid for one visit (and the freebies available in the lounge were laughable - the bar of chocolate was smaller than those you could buy for 1/2d, and the bag of crisps had six whole crisps in it!). Yes, I am being given something for free, but it feels much like being given free gruel.

It feels much like the marketing department have come up with a good publicity tool, that the scrooges in the finance department have clawed back. The end result being something that rather than making Avanti look good, makes them look like the grinch.

The system probably just isn't set up to accommodate the North Wales services properly, have you contacted them about it or had a read through the T&Cs?

I would recommend contacting Avanti, Club Avanti was set up before the introduction of the Everos so they may have over-looked the North Wales services, if they aren't made aware of the issue, they can't fix it.

This may not work for you as the North Wales issue is strange, but the vast majority of Avanti passengers using the core WCML services do benefit, myself as an example, I've had multiple free first class and standard premium journeys, free hot drinks etc, all at no additional cost, suggesting it's a con is a bit far fetched.

 

[MKB]

This may not work for you as the North Wales issue is strange, but the vast majority of Avanti passengers using the core WCML services do benefit

It's unwise to assume that because it works for you, it works for the "vast majority". Avanti has pulled inventory for First-class Advance fares on many routes. Try Nuneaton to Manchester for example, both on what I think you mean by "core WCML".

 

[Belperpete]

The system probably just isn't set up to accommodate the North Wales services properly, have you contacted them about it or had a read through the T&Cs?

I would recommend contacting Avanti, Club Avanti was set up before the introduction of the Everos so they may have over-looked the North Wales services, if they aren't made aware of the issue, they can't fix it.

They added a very small note to their web-site to say that Standard Premium isn't available on N.Wales services (leaving Club members to work out for themselves that their Standard Premium free passes are useless for these services, as you can't use them in standard). While not solving the problem, at least they swept it under the carpet. But no response about the first class issue.

This may not work for you as the North Wales issue is strange, but the vast majority of Avanti passengers using the core WCML services do benefit, myself as an example, I've had multiple free first class and standard premium journeys, free hot drinks etc, all at no additional cost, suggesting it's a con is a bit far fetched.

Pointing out that it has been good for you isn't being helpful, just rubbing salt into the wound. I am not interested in their hot drinks, even if offered for free, as they are awful. And 10% off food that is way more than 10% over-priced to start off with doesn't attract me either. I prefer to buy some decent food and drink at reasonable prices before I board.

Heaven knows how many hours I wasted fighting their useless bug-ridden web-site to get it to book tickets, only to find out once I had accrued sufficient points, that I can't actually use the free tickets without paying a significant amount. As far as I am concerned, promising something that they don't provide is a con, and this scheme is for many just a big con. It has done nothing to improve Avanti's image in my eyes, quite the reverse.

 

[Russel]

It's unwise to assume that because it works for you, it works for the "vast majority". Avanti has pulled inventory for First-class Advance fares on many routes. Try Nuneaton to Manchester for example, both on what I think you mean by "core WCML".

How big is the first class flow between those stations though?

I've never struggled to book 1st class journeys out of Euston or Scotland.

They added a very small note to their web-site to say that Standard Premium isn't available on N.Wales services (leaving Club members to work out for themselves that their Standard Premium free passes are useless for these services, as you can't use them in standard). While not solving the problem, at least they swept it under the carpet. But no response about the first class issue.


Pointing out that it has been good for you isn't being helpful, just rubbing salt into the wound. I am not interested in their hot drinks, even if offered for free, as they are awful. And 10% off food that is way more than 10% over-priced to start off with doesn't attract me either. I prefer to buy some decent food and drink at reasonable prices before I board.

Heaven knows how many hours I wasted fighting their useless bug-ridden web-site to get it to book tickets, only to find out once I had accrued sufficient points, that I can't actually use the free tickets without paying a significant amount. As far as I am concerned, promising something that they don't provide is a con, and this scheme is for many just a big con. It has done nothing to improve Avanti's image in my eyes, quite the reverse.

I'm not rubbing salt into the wounds at all, just highlighting my experience, you've clearly got a chip on your shoulder over this scheme though and taking it all rather personally.

Again, have you contacted Avanti over the North Wales 1st class issue or are you just going to keep making derogatory comments about them?

 

[MKB]

How big is the first class flow between those stations though?

Why is that relevant? I said many routes and cited that as just one example.

 

[Russel]

Why is that relevant? I said many routes and cited that as just one example.

Well, if the Euston - Manchester 1st Class demand is greater than the Nuneaton - Manchester 1st Class demand, capacity isn't unlimited, so you'd prioritize the flow with greatest demand to maximise revenue... Same principal applies to other routes where advances may not be available.

Simple solution, rather than waste the free tickets, treat yourself to a 1st Class trip to London and back or somewhere else where advances are available to use the vouchers.

They are giving you something for free under a scheme they don't have to provide, the last few posts suggesting the scheme is a con are actually quite defamatory and rather ungrateful.

 

[MKB]

Well, if the Euston - Manchester 1st Class demand is greater than the Nuneaton - Manchester 1st Class demand, capacity isn't unlimited, so you'd prioritize the flow with greatest demand to maximise revenue... Same principal applies to other routes where advances may not be available.

Exactly! Avanti have forgotten that they are not a London-Manchester, airline-style, end-to-end provider. They are a public service transport company with intermediate stations they are supposed to connect to the rest of the country, with passengers who are just as entitled to the full range of class options.

You'd think that, if they are -- somewhat grudgingly I suspect -- tempting passengers at Trent Valley stations with first-class Advance fares to Euston (wiping out the possibility of seats thus sold being available from Manchester, Liverpool, Preston, etc. to Euston), it might be a sensible business model to try and fill those same seats from the origin station to the Trent Valley station with a similar non-flexible, first-class fare.

They don't, and thus those spare seats are not even available to Club Avanti members. (On some station pairings, they don't even publish an Anytime First fare anymore.)

As I've seen on countless journeys, Avanti would rather run coach K empty than publish attractive first-class Advance fares for passengers at certain intermediate stations who want to go north rather than to London.

 

[sh24]

Without rehashing a debate for another place, the level of subsidy means the railway has to think commercially first rather than solely as a public service.

Like any loyalty or frequent traveller scheme it will work for some and not for others. If you don’t like…well no-one is forcing you to participate.

 

[Belperpete]

They are giving you something for free under a scheme they don't have to provide, the last few posts suggesting the scheme is a con are actually quite defamatory and rather ungrateful.

Except that they aren't giving it for free if you have to pay them to use it.

None of their publicity encouraging me to join up and book my tickets on their website mentioned the restrictions that effectively make the rewards useless. Their misleading advertising was a con. I only got told that my annual lounge pass was only valid for one visit when I attempted to use it a second time.

Their deliberately misleading advertising led me to waste hours of my time trying to book tickets on their bug-ridden site that I could have bought elsewhere with a discount, in order to gain points for rewards that turned out to be useless. Are you really expecting me to be grateful to them for that?

 

[Belperpete]

Like any loyalty or frequent traveller scheme it will work for some and not for others. If you don’t like…well no-one is forcing you to participate.

No, but they certainly misled me into participating. They should at least be upfront about the limitations, so that people don't waste time and money participating in something that isn't going to work for them. Currently they are conning people into participating.

 

[Belperpete]

I'm not rubbing salt into the wounds at all, just highlighting my experience, you've clearly got a chip on your shoulder over this scheme though and taking it all rather personally.

Of course I've got a chip on my shoulder about this. I have been conned into wasting time and money on a scheme that doesn't offer me the benefits promised.

Again, have you contacted Avanti over the North Wales 1st class issue or are you just going to keep making derogatory comments about them?

Again, I suggest that you read my previous posts. And yes I am going to keep making derogatory comments about an organisation whose customer services department treats its customers so dismissively.

 

[jfollows]

The only benefit I’ve seen has been earlier notification of availability of advance tickets for a future date.

 

[Russel]

Except that they aren't giving it for free if you have to pay them to use it.

None of their publicity encouraging me to join up and book my tickets on their website mentioned the restrictions that effectively make the rewards useless. Their misleading advertising was a con. I only got told that my annual lounge pass was only valid for one visit when I attempted to use it a second time.

Their deliberately misleading advertising led me to waste hours of my time trying to book tickets on their bug-ridden site that I could have bought elsewhere with a discount, in order to gain points for rewards that turned out to be useless. Are you really expecting me to be grateful to them for that?

There are pages of T&Cs and FAQs you could have a read through to answer most of your questions, or a quick message to Avanti on social media, who usually reply in minutes, from experience.

Once you worked out that you couldn't use the complimentary tickets on the North Wales route, you could have booked standard tickets, no one forced you to buy first class tickets.

If you feel you've been mislead, or conned, as you put it, by their advertising, please contact the advertising standards agency,
otherwise, stop moaning.

 

[Belperpete]

There are pages of T&Cs and FAQs you could have a read through to answer most of your questions, or a quick message to Avanti on social media, who usually reply in minutes, from experience.

I didn't have any questions, I made the mistake of believing what they said. You shouldn't have to wade through the small print in detailed t&C's to find out that it is a con.

Once you worked out that you couldn't use the complimentary tickets on the North Wales route, you could have booked standard tickets, no one forced you to buy first class tickets.

As I have already pointed out, neither the free first voucher or free standard premium voucher can be used to book standard tickets. So the only way that I was able to use either voucher was by buying a ticket to Crewe, from where I could use the voucher on the same train. So if I wanted to use the vouchers that I had worked so hard to get, then I had no option but to buy a ticket.

If you feel you've been mislead, or conned, as you put it, by their advertising, please contact the advertising standards agency, otherwise, stop moaning.

I will stop moaning when you stop trying to defend Avanti. Do you work for them?

 

[Russel]

As I have already pointed out, neither the free first voucher or free standard premium voucher can be used to book standard tickets. So the only way that I was able to use either voucher was by buying a ticket to Crewe, from where I could use the voucher on the same train. So if I wanted to use the vouchers that I had worked so hard to get, then I had no option but to buy a ticket.

You're not getting it, I'm not suggesting using the complimentary tickets in standard, I know that doesn't work, I'm suggesting you use them from Crewe and just book standard advances or off-peaks, whatever is cheapest to get to Crewe and use the complimentary tickets from there, you're still getting a free Frist Class journey to London from Crewe.

How did you work hard to get the complimentary tickets, they are literally a by product of booking normal tickets you'd be booking anyway, you do nothing extra to gain the credits towards the complimentary tickets?

I will stop moaning when you stop trying to defend Avanti. Do you work for them?

I don't work for them no do I actually want to defend them, Avanti in general are shambolic, but I'm not going to just blindly agree that the Club Avanti scheme is a con or worthless, because that isn't the case, it's your opinion based on the scheme not being as beneficial to you as it is to others.

As I said, if you really do have an issue with how this was marketed and your ranting isn't simply down to a personal grudge against Avanti, then lodge a complaint with the ASA, they will decide if you have been mislead.

 

[campdave]

Hi, I've managed to make it to 8 journeys already since my account reset at the end of November, so my interest in this scheme has suddenly piqued!

Is the standard premium return an anytime return or just a day return?

I should make it to gold shortly, but doubt I would get to platinum by November, I would possibly be on 14 or 16 by then - however, the value of the first class return and lounge pass far outweighs the cost I could purchase several singles for, especially using my blue light card - do you actually have to MAKE the journey, or just buy the tickets?

 

[sh24]

The standard premium return is effectively 2 advance tickets combined, so no problem straddling multiple days. Just note it isn't changeable, cancellable etc.

IME just buying the ticket is enough, but no guarantee.

 

[Belperpete]

I should make it to gold shortly, but doubt I would get to platinum by November, I would possibly be on 14 or 16 by then - however, the value of the first class return and lounge pass far outweighs the cost I could purchase several singles for, especially using my blue light card - do you actually have to MAKE the journey, or just buy the tickets?

The first class return is likewise two advance tickets that have to be purchased at least a week in advance, on trains where there is a quota available, and the lounge pass is only valid for one visit, so they may not be worth as much as you might hope.

The standard premium tickets are only valid on trains that have standard premium on them, and where there is a quota available. You can't use them in standard class, which may restrict you using them.

For earning points, you get the points when the ticket ceases to be valid. So if you buy an off-peak return, where you can return within 28 days, then you get the points when that 28 days expires. If you buy tickets for delivery by ToD, they have no way of knowing if you ever used the ticket, so I doubt they bother checking for other types.