Clitheroe to Hellifield

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I personally can't see the point of extending services to Hellifield on a regular basis as much of the S & C is dependant on tourist traffic. In fact, I think for what it is, its rather well connected, with regular stopping services running through some pretty expensive remote communities on two seperate axis and a third sunday only.

I think that the fact that the line is being kept open by the use of the special tourist-market orientated services is something that we should all be thankful for in this discussion. This line can serve a strategic purpose by taking WCML traffic as a relief route in the case of the line from Preston to Carlisle experiancing severe problems, by the use of the this line, to the Settle to Carlisle route, from Hellifield.

This is not a case for a theoretical line re-opening aspiration, as is the case with many projects that are discussed on this forum. This line actually is in existance.

 

[lancastrian]

Not only is the line still there and is usable, it is still double track. The Manchester to Clitheroe service should be at least extended to Hellifield, really at least as far as Settle. The best solution would be a two hour service, Carlisle to Manchester, alternating with a two hour Carlisle to Leeds service, this would give the stations on the Settle and Carlisle stations would have a hourly service and by changing at Hellifield, onto the Morecambe to Leeds services, they would have an hourly service throughout the day. If a alternate two hourly service Hellifiled to Manchester was run as well, then an hourly service off the S & C to both Manchester & Leeds would be available.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I now await considered comment from various sources to come on with numerous reasons why:-

(A) There is no stock to run the service
(B) There is no demand for the service

etc, etc., etc.,

 

[Nym]

Now if only there was an extremely aggressive electrification program to free up all diesels with a number lower than 150 (!=139)

Or an order of some more 172 units, and a slightly less aggressive electrification program.

I'm talking MML to Leeds, All southern gaps, Valley Lines, East Manchester Lines to Chinley, Bolton - Wigan, Merseyrail 3rd Rail extensions, Crewe - Chester and GW Gaps by 2019

Then TP North, CLC Route (Transfer of Alt'ham line back to Heavy), re-opening Central, etc, Leeds - York via Harrogate, Sheffeild - Doncaster - Hull - Bridlington, Edin - Abderdeen, Scottish Wires etc. by 2025

Nationwide the DMU Fleet would then be looking to possibly retire some 150s.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Now if only there was an extremely aggressive electrification program to free up all diesels with a number lower than 150 (!=139)

Or an order of some more 172 units, and a slightly less aggressive electrification program.

I'm talking MML to Leeds, All southern gaps, Valley Lines, East Manchester Lines to Chinley, Bolton - Wigan, Merseyrail 3rd Rail extensions, Crewe - Chester and GW Gaps by 2019

Then TP North, CLC Route (Transfer of Alt'ham line back to Heavy), re-opening Central, etc, Leeds - York via Harrogate, Sheffeild - Doncaster - Hull - Bridlington, Edin - Abderdeen, Scottish Wires etc. by 2025

Nationwide the DMU Fleet would then be looking to possibly retire some 150s.

Are you sure that this very considered answer belongs to the Clitheroe to Hellifield thread?

Did you mean to post this posting somewhere else?

 

[reb0118]

How about this one. Firstly relay the short section of track from Millerhill to Carlisle. Then have one portion Start at Edinburgh and another at Glasgow (running via the GSW). These would combine at Carlisle and run via the S&C to Hellifield where they would split to form separate Manchester via Clitheroe & Leeds via Skipton portions.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How about this one. Firstly relay the short section of track from Millerhill to Carlisle. Then have one portion Start at Edinburgh and another at Glasgow (running via the GSW). These would combine at Carlisle and run via the S&C to Hellifield where they would split to form separate Manchester via Clitheroe & Leeds via Skipton portions.

This will really put Blackburn station on the map as an even bigger transport hub than it has grown to be so far. It has enough platform capacity.

 

[reb0118]

My plan is probably wishful thinking but at one time these lines were all important main lines. Think of a through Glasgow - Manchester Vic service calling at: Kilmarnock, Dumfries, Carlisle, Appleby, Settle, Hellifield, Clitheroe, Blackburn, Bolton, Salford Crescent, & Manchester Victoria.

Would not be a fast service but still an express
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
My plan is probably wishful thinking but at one time these lines were all important main lines. Think of a through Glasgow - Manchester Vic service calling at: Kilmarnock, Dumfries, Carlisle, Appleby, Settle, Hellifield, Clitheroe, Blackburn, Bolton, Salford Crescent, & Manchester Victoria.

Would not be a fast service but still an express

 

[Invincibles]

How about this one. Firstly relay the short section of track from Millerhill to Carlisle. Then have one portion Start at Edinburgh and another at Glasgow (running via the GSW). These would combine at Carlisle and run via the S&C to Hellifield where they would split to form separate Manchester via Clitheroe & Leeds via Skipton portions.

With a little more infill the Leeds portion can continue via Sheffield and Nottingham to Melton and Kettering.

Meanwhile the Manchester train can continue via Stockport to Buxton and Derby (some infill needed) and then on through Leicester to Kettering where it can meet up with the Leeds half.

This will then continue into the Barlow shed at St Pancras where passengers can disembark below the big clock into taxis waiting on the adjacent platform.

It seems a good plan, indeed the two halves might be able to meet up just right at Kettering. It could be the first train to join, split and rejoin on the network and provide many useful links.

I do hope the plan was joking and in the spirit of what could have been

 

[lancastrian]

I now await considered comment from various sources to come on with numerous reasons why:-

(A) There is no stock to run the service
(B) There is no demand for the service

etc, etc., etc.,

You may well be right that there is not the stock to run the service, but possibly some may come available with the electrification of the lancashire lines. But concerning that fact there is no demand for a service to Manchester, I disagree, the Sunday dales rail services are always well used and although the trains start from Blackpool & Preston, they conect with a Manchester service at Blackburn.

All the S & C trains go to Leeds, yes a large city with many jobs, but Manchester is not much further away, it is a larger city with a great jobs potential. If Lancs CC are planning on spending money to reinstate the Todmorden loop to reconnect East Lancashie to Manchester, although it is already connected vis Blackburn & Bolton. Why not just at least extend the Clitheroe service to Hellifield to test out the market.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You may well be right that there is not the stock to run the service, but possibly some may come available with the electrification of the lancashire lines. But concerning that fact there is no demand for a service to Manchester, I disagree, the Sunday dales rail services are always well used and although the trains start from Blackpool & Preston, they conect with a Manchester service at Blackburn.

All the S & C trains go to Leeds, yes a large city with many jobs, but Manchester is not much further away, it is a larger city with a great jobs potential. If Lancs CC are planning on spending money to reinstate the Todmorden loop to reconnect East Lancashie to Manchester, although it is already connected vis Blackburn & Bolton. Why not just at least extend the Clitheroe service to Hellifield to test out the market.

I think that you have misread the posting that I made. I said that I was awaiting comment from others ...."others" referring to the usual suspects who will systematically dissect any reason for a Clitheroe to Hellifield service. Personally, I made my feelings about the line remaining open and the benefits of the link in my posting on 16th June.

However, that said, I do understand the points that you have gone to the trouble to make in your reply.

 

[bluenoxid]

Why not run additional special services on the route similar to Dalesrail at useful points during the summer. There are those Buxton units that sit idle for most of the day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why not run additional special services on the route similar to Dalesrail at useful points during the summer. There are those Buxton units that sit idle for most of the day.

Again, I will say to you, what I have said to lancastrian.

There are members out on the forum (who seem to have gone quiet at the moment) who will take the greatest of pleasure in systematically dissecting any reason for any service running over the Clitheroe to Hellifield line.

The units that you refer to at Buxton, which you say sit idle all day, will no doubt be suggested, by these very people, for enhancing service provision elsewhere in the lines running south, not north, of Manchester.

All this being said, I personally welcome the idea that you have made. But there again, I am not a cynic.

 

[bluenoxid]

Whilst I am one of the first to remind users that money is a major issue, it is also beneficial to remind users that a gold plated option, rail only option is not the only thing to desire. Personally, I think that the idea of getting services on to the route is difficult to justify but with spare stock and an existing infrastructure, a touring train terminating at Appleby or Carlisle is much better than dumping the poor sods at Hellifield. Any messing around like this would be better served by a coach with through ticketing at the moment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Personally, I think that the idea of getting services on to the route is difficult to justify but with spare stock and an existing infrastructure, a touring train terminating at Appleby or Carlisle is much better than dumping the poor sods at Hellifield. Any messing around like this would be better served by a coach with through ticketing at the moment.

It is hard to disagree with what you say. In the current Northern Rail timetable 12 (Manchester to Blackburn and Clitheroe), there is mention made of The East Lancashire Day Ranger Ticket that is available for travel by rail on the Clitheroe to Bolton service and also on the Preston to Colne service, plus bus travel on both Transdev Lancashire United and Burnley and Pendle services. The timetable also gives details of the DalesRail 2011 services, with times in the timetable.

 

[lancastrian]

I think that you have misread the posting that I made. I said that I was awaiting comment from others ...."others" referring to the usual suspects who will systematically dissect any reason for a Clitheroe to Hellifield service. Personally, I made my feelings about the line remaining open and the benefits of the link in my posting on 16th June.

However, that said, I do understand the points that you have gone to the trouble to make in your reply.

You are proberbly right in your comments, I have had a very busy fortnight at work and I proberbly was a little tired when I read your comments and therefore misunderstood your point. I always find your comments both interesting and thought provoking, even though there are times I don't agree with them. But that is what this forum is all about.

 

[Buttsy]

Rather than run services up the Settle & Carlisle, how about running them to Morecambe or Barrow? Alternatively, re-open the Hawes branch and run a 2 hourly service Manchester-Hawes...

 

[Sox]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9107926.Repairs_needed_on_Whalley_Arches/

Repairs needed on Whalley Arches

1:40pm Monday 27th June 2011

THE Whalley Arches railway viaduct is to undergo major repairs after part of the structure started to sink into the ground.

Wooden supports on one of the 49 arches have started to rot causing the 1846 structure - the largest of its kind in Lancashire - to subside Network Rail engineers are to take out the rotting wooden pillings on arch 39 near King Street and insert steel replacements.

Engineers have been using remote sensors since February to monitor the scale of the problem.

Repairs on the Grade ll-listed structure must be agreed by English Heritage before they go ahead.

Details of the cost of the project have not been revealed.

Once approved, rail bosses hope the work will be completed by next spring.

Network Rail spokesman Keith Lumley said: “It's not something serious enough that it needs to be tackled now and could stop the train line running.

“Train services on the viaduct have a 45mph limit and that's perfectly acceptable for the type of distortion there is in the viaduct.

"Long term if we don't do anything about it then yes it would become a much more serious problem."

Engineers will have to build a scaffold structure around the viaduct before they spray liquid concrete into a cage underneath the arch which will be removed once the concrete has set.

Mr Lumley added: "A very similar problem occurred in 1940 when the wood began to rot and the peers had to be underpinned."

The viaduct, built by the Blackburn and Bolton Railway Company provided a vital lifeline for small rural communities, linking Clitheroe and Blackburn.

It is the longest brick viaduct in Lancashire at 605 metres and at its highest point it is around 21 metres high.

The 7million bricks used to build it were made in Whalley.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst not being part of this thread area as such, no one would disagree with the fact that the Whalley viaduct being kept in good and safe order is essential to any Clitheroe based proposals.

Network Rail see the viaduct in terms of the existing Manchester to Clitheroe service plus the Settle to Carlisle specials only and not in terms of a future improved passenger and freight entity, which is logical in their eyes.