Classic Bus North West - Red Rocket Express

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The matter of "villages with no bus service" as a result of the demise of Classic Bus received a fair amount of air-time on the BBC North-West TV News.

 

[robertclark125]

To be fair to LCC, there's nothing they could do to stop CBNW registering the route 80 as a commercial operation. I admit, they could've checked before awarding them the contract for the evening and Sunday service. That said, if CBNW offered a lower tender price that Cumfybus, not a lot LCC can do.

As for route 80, three firms are likely, Stagecoach South Lancs and Merseyside, Rotala Preston Bus, and Blackpool Transport. Take your pick.

 

[WestCoast]

To be fair to LCC, there's nothing they could do to stop CBNW registering the route 80 as a commercial operation. I admit, they could've checked before awarding them the contract for the evening and Sunday service. That said, if CBNW offered a lower tender price that Cumfybus, not a lot LCC can do.

As for route 80, three firms are likely, Stagecoach South Lancs and Merseyside, Rotala Preston Bus, and Blackpool Transport. Take your pick.

That is certainly true, it seems CBNW well and truly put 'the cat among the pigeons'. LCC has had a good partnership with Cumfybus at their former depot in Poulton and Coastal Coaches in Warton for about five years now, so I imagine CBNW has caused just as much of a headache for them.

 

[Whistler40145]

I doubt Stagecoach would take it on, they probably don't have sufficient vehicles, unless they've got a surplus, plus they only take on profitable routes.

Blackpool Transport never seem to take on services outside the Blackpool area, plus do they have sufficient vehicles?

I am unsure Coastal Coaches have a big enough fleet, so that leaves Preston Bus as the most likely.

How soon would LCC want the service re-starting?

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[glennds999]

I saw this on the CBNW blog today - posted last night by the infamous owner:



On 18 December following consultation with the finance company that underwrites our VOSA financial standing and invoice discounting facilities, a decision was made for Classic Bus North West Ltd (CBNW Ltd) to suspend trading. The services being operated on the CBNW Ltd licence were therefore suspended, affecting services 80 (Blackpool - Poulton - Preston) and the Red Rocket Express (although the operation of this was going to be paused after Xmas).
The decision was taken against a background of increasing amounts owed to the business and losses on the bus refurbishment side of the business, affecting cash flow and our ability to keep pace with payroll obligations. Some staff have been laid off and it is likely that there will be redundancies. The decision DOES NOT affect service 22, which operates on the Oakwood Travel licence, and we are now working closely with our principal stakeholders to develop a fresh and sustainable operation through Oakwood Travel Services Ltd.

 

[WestCoast]

I doubt Stagecoach would take it on, they probably don't have sufficient vehicles, unless they've got a surplus, plus they only take on profitable routes.

Blackpool Transport never seem to take on services outside the Blackpool area, plus do they have sufficient vehicles?

I am unsure Coastal Coaches have a big enough fleet, so that leaves Preston Bus as the most likely.

How soon would LCC want the service re-starting?

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Stagecoach in Lancashire (as it was then) used to run the whole set of Fylde Villager routes under contract to LCC and are definitely prepared to operate for LCC - they operate the Wyre Villager routes and also the recently awarded cutback 82 between Fleetwood and Poulton. Infact, you could probably just re-extend that to Preston and voila, you've reinstated the route. Whether or not they're prepared to do this is another matter, but I'm sure if Stagecoach could offer a decent deal that would be problem sorted.

Blackpool Transport used to be keen on LCC contracts before they underwent the cutbacks a few years ago, they used to operate all sorts; the former Kirkham Roamer (they still have the dedicated solo that certainly used to have seatbelts), Sunday tendered journeys on the 158 to Preston, the no 2/7 extensions from Lytham to Wesham. I seem to remember they used to do some Wyre Villager stuff to Lancaster! Since 2010, the only out of area service is really the 2C to Knott End, plus some school contracts they now operate with Tridents!

Rotala Preston Bus are the newcomers really. They were awarded the evening tendered journeys on the 68 a couple of years ago and have obviously just expanded with the 75 contract. Years back the original PB had some contracts but I can't remember exactly what.

Not sure who would have spare vehicles, Coastal certainly don't, BTS could probably find a couple of solos (the ones they designated to operate service 20 this past summer), Rotala Preston Bus had to transfer some up from Birmingham for the 75 and no idea about Stagecoach.

 

[Class20]

Both Preston Bus and Stagecoach transferred 4 Solos each to Preston for the extra work they took on with these Fylde routes.

I don't know if its true but I think LCC may have asked Preston Bus to work the 80 as an emergency measure but as the route is still not running, clearly nothing has come of it.

 

[richw]

I doubt Stagecoach would take it on, they probably don't have sufficient vehicles, unless they've got a surplus, plus they only take on profitable routes.

Blackpool Transport never seem to take on services outside the Blackpool area, plus do they have sufficient vehicles?

I imagine both of these companies have sufficient vehicles, as both have had numerous vehicles on loan to Western Greyhound for most of this year, which have all recently been returned.

 

[mbonwick]

Stagecoach have plenty of 2002 and newer darts sat around Merseyside awaiting reallocation...

 

[robertclark125]

Both firms have reserve fleets to call upon, and Preston Bus' parent company Rotala have been trying to sell some group vehicles, so they can be called upon as well.

 

[34D]

I saw this on the CBNW blog today - posted last night by the infamous owner:



On 18 December following consultation with the finance company that underwrites our VOSA financial standing and invoice discounting facilities, a decision was made for Classic Bus North West Ltd (CBNW Ltd) to suspend trading. The services being operated on the CBNW Ltd licence were therefore suspended, affecting services 80 (Blackpool - Poulton - Preston) and the Red Rocket Express (although the operation of this was going to be paused after Xmas).
The decision was taken against a background of increasing amounts owed to the business and losses on the bus refurbishment side of the business, affecting cash flow and our ability to keep pace with payroll obligations. Some staff have been laid off and it is likely that there will be redundancies. The decision DOES NOT affect service 22, which operates on the Oakwood Travel licence, and we are now working closely with our principal stakeholders to develop a fresh and sustainable operation through Oakwood Travel Services Ltd.

Would this be Mr Philip Higgs? Is there a link?

 

[Whistler40145]

It is very convenient that CBNW has ceasing trading, making staff redundant & transferring service 22 to Oakwood Travel Services.

Could there be a link between CBNW, Oakwood & Mr Higgs?

I don't know much about their operations.

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[cainebj]

It is very convenient that CBNW has ceasing trading, making staff redundant & transferring service 22 to Oakwood Travel Services.

Could there be a link between CBNW, Oakwood & Mr Higgs?

I don't know much about their operations.

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If I remember rightly, Oakwood was the original license used when Seafront 12 started, at the time registered to an address in Liverpool. I believe this license was also used for the hire operations before Seafront 12 started.
The Classic Bus North West Ltd license came along later, possibly around the time Catch 22 was starting.
Seafront 12 and Catch 22 were both registered across both licenses, both with Philip Higgs as the named company director (He's also the named Transport manager on the Classic Bus North West Ltd license), and now both licenses registered at the Brinwell Road, Blackpool address.
A third license application has been in process for a few months now, Red Rocket Bus Ltd, also with Philip Higgs as the company director.
Catch 22 was cancelled on the Classic Bus North West Ltd license back in October, still registered on the Oakwood license, but now it's not showing on there from what is publically viewable.

There's another license associated with Philip Higgs, though I'm not 100% sure what the connections are. Totally Transport CIC, trading name Classicbus Lancashire, registered to an address in Wigan with Philip Higgs as one of the 2 named company directors.

 

[34D]

Totally Transport CIC was set up (5ish years ago) as the 'commercial' arm of the Lancashire Transport Trust.

 

[Robertj21a]

Agree about the council's involvement. I thought they were supposed to do a reasonably thorough check of any operator tendering for services, particularly the integrity and financial standing of the parties involved.

Robert

 

[Hardcastle]

But still no service 80 until someone else is awarded the contract. A few years ago a previous operator on the route had its licence revoked because the buses where un-roadworthy. A new contract with Stagecoach was signed within days. I guess the Xmas period has delayed things somewhat.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With recent matters in mind, the award for the contract for the 80 service will be subject to much prior scrutiny.

 

[ECML180]

Probably have to wait until next year before it's awarded

 

[Amberley54]

With recent matters in mind, the award for the contract for the 80 service will be subject to much prior scrutiny.

It will be subject to exactly the same scrutiny as is set out in the tendering authority's financial standing orders when evaluating tenders for local government contracts. I should know, it was my job for the past 10 years!

Also, operators pulling out/collapsing/disappearing 'overnight' is not new. Who remembers the spectacular collapse of Court Line in the early 1970's?

However, The increasing frequency of such instances' is a regrettable consequence of the privatisation of bus service provision as it is with several other public services that have been opened up for delivery by for-profit businesses aadept at submitting attractive tender packages, but unable to deliver. Remember G4S at the Olympic Games last year and the collapse of the Southern Cross nursing home company- local council's had to step in at less than 48 hours notice in some cases to ensure the care and safety of elderly and vulnerable residents when Southern Cross walked away.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It will be subject to exactly the same scrutiny as is set out in the tendering authority's financial standing orders when evaluating tenders for local government contracts. I should know, it was my job for the past 10 years!

I made my posting with the Classic Bus pre-submission that must have occurred prior to the launch of the service that met its demise. I bow to your far greater knowledge and expertise of such matters, but would enquire if all the required pre-submissions were made in fullness of veracity by Classic Bus.

 

[Amberley54]

I made my posting with the Classic Bus pre-submission that must have occurred prior to the launch of the service that met its demise. I bow to your far greater knowledge and expertise of such matters, but would enquire if all the required pre-submissions were made in fullness of veracity by Classic Bus.

That is why the 'due diligence' process is a major growth area of tender evaluation work nowadays, always depending on documentation submitted being full, accurate and objective!

 

[Robertj21a]

I always understood that the 'due diligence' process should also include some basic research together with independent verification of material issues.

Robert

 

[Hardcastle]

I think its between Preston Bus/Stagecoach who will get the contract Stagecoach needs extra services a sub depot of Preston to sustain their presence in Fleetwood while Preston Bus are keen to expand outside their operation area but there again a temp contract maybe issued in the interim it needs to go back to a Preston-Fleetwood route & original timetable asap that's the main traffic flow.

 

[mbonwick]

Stagecoach's presence at Fleetwood is fine as is, and doesn't need further services to justify its existance.

 

[Amberley54]

I always understood that the 'due diligence' process should also include some basic research together with independent verification of material issues.

Robert

Indeed, but we are not talking about a blue chip Footsie 100 company takeover but a tendered bus contract, so a lot of the material submitted has to be taken at face value or the lawyer's and accountants bills will be greater than the value of the contract.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed, but we are not talking about a blue chip Footsie 100 company takeover but a tendered bus contract, so a lot of the material submitted has to be taken at face value or the lawyer's and accountants bills will be greater than the value of the contract.

Once again, I agree with the main premise of what you say, but any unscrupulous operator would take full advantage of that proviso to which you refer, should that lack of fullness of verification in the process be common knowledge within the bus industry.

 

[Robertj21a]

Once again, I agree with the main premise of what you say, but any unscrupulous operator would take full advantage of that proviso to which you refer, should that lack of fullness of verification in the process be common knowledge within the bus industry.

Quite agree, in fact I was about to type my own response until I realised that you'd already done it for me !

Robert

 

[robertclark125]

Apparently a Volvo B10M-55 from this firm is for sale on Ebay.

 

[ECML180]

Here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-Volv...K_Minibuses_Buses_Coaches&hash=item417b2d45a0

Doesn't seem a bad price.

 

[mbonwick]

£2,500 was it? Far too much to be paying for a non-DDA vehicle these days. £1,000 is about what its worth.