Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[47286Dan]

Thursday morning update

93005 GROG WORKSP DY 260Q451E22 F PETERBORO N

Dan

 

[sad1e]

I believe this has been touched on before, but now Rail Magazine reporting Class 93s are to be part of a high-speed freight trial:

High-speed freight trial planned using Class 93s

A plan for a high-speed freight operation has received some funding from the Department for Transport.

www.railmagazine.com

Any updates on when this trial is going to occur ?

 

[47286Dan]

Thursday morning moves

93002 GROG WORKSP DY 260Q451E05 F PETERBORO N
93005 GROG WORKSP DY 260Q451E05 F PETERBORO N

Dan

 

[MikePJ]

Just a note on the commercial side - ROG have a double-page spread advert in the current edition of Modern Railways, showing a lineup of 93s and describing them as "ready for work". So I think it's fair to say that they're looking for customers for these locos!

EDIT: here's a screengrab of the advert.

 

[43096]

Just a note on the commercial side - ROG have a double-page spread advert in the current edition of Modern Railways, showing a lineup of 93s and describing them as "ready for work". So I think it's fair to say that they're looking for customers for these locos!

They are clearly getting desperate if they have to take out a two page advert in a magazine. It’s not like any potential customers would be unaware of them already!

 

[MikePJ]

They are clearly getting desperate if they have to take out a two page advert in a magazine. It’s not like any potential customers would be unaware of them already!

There is also a single-page ad from Stadler in the same edition trying to get people to buy more Class 99s... again, I find it hard to believe that they need to be advertised, but you never know.

 

[Rail Quest]

Just a note on the commercial side - ROG have a double-page spread advert in the current edition of Modern Railways, showing a lineup of 93s and describing them as "ready for work". So I think it's fair to say that they're looking for customers for these locos!

EDIT: here's a screengrab of the advert.
View attachment 197481

They are clearly getting desperate if they have to take out a two page advert in a magazine. It’s not like any potential customers would be unaware of them already!

What could be the impact of the worst case scenario on ROG? If they fail to find sufficient work for the locos to pay their bills, does this situation become rather terminal for the operator/owner?

 

[cj_1985]

Could result in the 93s being marketed to operators in Europe if no use in the UK, or they sell them to another company/ROSCO ie. Beacon Rail.
Remember they are not directly owned by ROG

 

[43096]

Could result in the 93s being marketed to operators in Europe if no use in the UK, or they sell them to another company/ROSCO ie. Beacon Rail.
Remember they are not directly owned by ROG

I am not sure how much interest they would be to one of the big leasing companies. They all have big fleets of standardised locos (Vectron and TRAXX) on the mainland, usually with framework contracts with Siemens and Alstom so they can order more when needed.

 

[Rail Quest]

Could result in the 93s being marketed to operators in Europe if no use in the UK, or they sell them to another company/ROSCO ie. Beacon Rail.
Remember they are not directly owned by ROG

Those options still provide a pretty bleak outlook for ROG themselves though. If ROG were unable to use them due to export to Europe or sale to a company that wanted to prioritize a different client (perhaps FOCs like Freightliner could offer a more consistent stream of work for them, making them more appealing to a ROSCO), ROG would've spent a lot of resources (both in terms of money and time) with no benefits being realized.

Even if the locos were sold to a company that was happy to lease the locos to ROG, if no new contracts are found, there would be minimal returns on investment for the company against again those implementation costs.

 

[cj_1985]

Those options still provide a pretty bleak outlook for ROG themselves though. If ROG were unable to use them due to export to Europe or sale to a company that wanted to prioritize a different client (perhaps FOCs like Freightliner could offer a more consistent stream of work for them, making them more appealing to a ROSCO), ROG would've spent a lot of resources (both in terms of money and time) with no benefits being realized.

Even if the locos were sold to a company that was happy to lease the locos to ROG, if no new contracts are found, there would be minimal returns on investment for the company against again those implementation costs.

Again, the likes of a ROSCO like Beacon (others are available) operate across Europe... so have a wider range of clients, a farther reach than just within the UK.

But I grant you, it would leave ROG in a poor position given they've already started offleasing 37s back to EP... I think I saw something, somewhere, about them wanting to keep 1 or 2 of the 37s due to coupler options on those specific locos (I cant remember if loco numbers were mentioned).

Freightliner or DRS could be an option... freightliner have already tried one... but it's whether the new owner is happy to stick with the already 'owned outright' class 90s, or if they'd be happy to pay extra for a 93 to work its trains.

I don't even want to guess about DRS... given they change their business model every few years.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Again, the likes of a ROSCO like Beacon (others are available) operate across Europe... so have a wider range of clients, a farther reach than just within the UK.

But I grant you, it would leave ROG in a poor position given they've already started offleasing 37s back to EP... I think I saw something, somewhere, about them wanting to keep 1 or 2 of the 37s due to coupler options on those specific locos (I cant remember if loco numbers were mentioned).

Freightliner or DRS could be an option... freightliner have already tried one... but it's whether the new owner is happy to stick with the already 'owned outright' class 90s, or if they'd be happy to pay extra for a 93 to work its trains.

I don't even want to guess about DRS... given they change their business model every few years.

From what I understand ROG is a subsidiary company of Star Capital and i believe it is Star who technically own the fleet of 93s. Although I wouldnt be surprised at them going abroad, they would probably not be tqaken by operators in Western Europe (mostly using 15kV) who would probahly favour Vectron type AC electrics. Whether the operators in Bulgaria and Romania who have previously taken class 86 87 and 92 would want to lumber themselves with ten locos designed specfically for the UK market AND were prepared to pay inevitably high leasing costs, I really don't know.

I suspect there will be something for them in the UK where the last miles diesel will be a benefit. There were some class 4 paths in the system for Mossend-Hams Hall services last year, and there are or were paths out of Cannock to Southampton and maybe Gateway ? I imagine a class 93 could easily form a train up in Cannock using diesel or batteries, then pan up once under the wires on the "Chaseline". Similarly pan down before the junction and run into Gateway on Batteries or diesel. The snag is - no terminal at Cannock !! There are however existing services into Hams Hall and Birch Coppice so provided a class 93 can operate on diesel / batteries from Nuneaton to Hams Hall or Birch Coppice, that would be another option.

 

[birchesgreen]

There is also a single-page ad from Stadler in the same edition trying to get people to buy more Class 99s... again, I find it hard to believe that they need to be advertised, but you never know.

Gives the marketing team something to do.

 

[j37401]

DBC and ROG are testing one climbing out of Liverpool docks on tuesday 10th Feb working 4S38 1418 Seaforth - Mossend intermodal.

 

[Rail Quest]

DBC and ROG are testing one climbing out of Liverpool docks on tuesday 10th Feb working 4S38 1418 Seaforth - Mossend intermodal.

Excellent! Looks like they'll also be using the 93 on the return working, departing early Wednesday morning?

RTT link for light loco movements, presumably for the 93: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32229/2026-02-10/detailed & https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32490/2026-02-10/detailed

RTT link for the outbound move (running as 4Q38): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32492/2026-02-10/detailed

RTT link for the return working (running as 4Q35): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32491/2026-02-11/detailed

 

[AndrewE]

Excellent! Looks like they'll also be using the 93 on the return working, departing early Wednesday morning?

RTT link for light loco movements, presumably for the 93: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32229/2026-02-10/detailed & https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32490/2026-02-10/detailed

RTT link for the outbound move (running as 4Q38): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32492/2026-02-10/detailed

RTT link for the return working (running as 4Q35): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R32491/2026-02-11/detailed

I am surprised that those are pathed as Diesel throughout when surely faster paths could gave been managed on electric?
But maybe these are established diesel paths and they want to see if the 93s are a lot better...

 

[dmncf]

DBC and ROG are testing one climbing out of Liverpool docks on tuesday 10th Feb working 4S38 1418 Seaforth - Mossend intermodal.

Seems a bit strange, as my understanding is that DBC own far more locomotives than they have work for, hence DBC are unlikely to lease additional locomotives.

 

[Freightmaster]

Seems a bit strange, as my understanding is that DBC own far more locomotives than they have work for, hence DBC are unlikely to lease additional locomotives.

I expect that ROG are providing the loco free of charge as a 'proof of concept' so that that
they can convince DB or other FOCs to take them on. AKA, they are getting desperate!



MARK

 

[zwk500]

Seems a bit strange, as my understanding is that DBC own far more locomotives than they have work for, hence DBC are unlikely to lease additional locomotives.

They'll be interested if they can get a better margin by using 93s.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

And here it (4Q38) is passing my house at Barton and Broughton loop.

 

[Rail Quest]

Looks like the loco performed very well up Shap. Passed Carnforth approx 1 minute early and ended up reaching Shap Summit 16 minutes early.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Looks like the loco performed very well up Shap. Passed Carnforth approx 1 minute early and ended up reaching Shap Summit 16 minutes early.

It was a few minutes behind passing Preston and so it obviously made up time which is good.

 

[AndrewE]

Looks like the loco performed very well up Shap. Passed Carnforth approx 1 minute early and ended up reaching Shap Summit 16 minutes early.

and gained another 6 up Beattock. Looks like it's looped there now though.

It was a few minutes behind passing Preston and so it obviously made up time which is good.

I thought it was late getting to the WCML S of Wigan but had made it all up by Preston...

Realtime Trains | 4Q38 1418 Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal | 10/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 4Q38 1418 departure from Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal on 10/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[wickham]

Does anyone know which loco was used - this does not seem to have been mentioned !

 

[Peter Sarf]

Judging from RTT the timing load is heaver going back to Seaforth from Mossend (1475 tonnes vs 1000 tonnes). I assume that makes the last few miles on the return to Seaforth easy (downhill iirc) but Shap and Beattock will be the test.

 

[AndrewE]

and gained another 6 up Beattock. Looks like it's looped there now though.

I thought it was late getting to the WCML S of Wigan but had made it all up by Preston...

Realtime Trains | 4Q38 1418 Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal | 10/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 4Q38 1418 departure from Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal on 10/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It has now been let out of the loop 3 late. Maybe it has to present at the freight terminal at a particular time, & 41 early is not helpful?

 

[Wavertreelad]

Does anyone know which loco was used - this does not seem to have been mentioned !

Looks like it was 93006 according to a post on X below.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I thought it was late getting to the WCML S of Wigan but had made it all up by Preston...

Realtime Trains | 4Q38 1418 Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal | 10/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 4Q38 1418 departure from Seaforth C.T. Mdhc (Ews) to Mossend Euroterminal on 10/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

yes caught up most of the time by my house at the Barton and Broughton loop.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Some

Looks like the loco performed very well up Shap. Passed Carnforth approx 1 minute early and ended up reaching Shap Summit 16 minutes early.

Some stats for comparison:

Headcode & Date	From	To	Trailing load	Time taken in TRUST	Notes	Time allowed on schedule
4Q38 / 10th Feb	Tebay	Shap Summit	1038 tons (including cl.66)	6 mins	Clear run. 93006	10 mins (clear run)
4S38 / 5th Feb	Tebay	Shap Summit	745 tons	7 mins	Clear run. 66108	10 mins (clear run)
4S38 / 3rd Feb	Tebay	Shap Summit	1112 tons	9 mins	Clear run. 66108	10 mins (clear run)
4Q38 / 10th Feb	Beattock	Beattock Summit	1038 tons (including cl.66)	18 mins	Standing start (looped)	23 mins (standing start)
4S38 / 5th Feb	Beattock	Beattock Summit	745 tons	16 mins	Clear run	23 mins (standing start)
4S38 / 3rd Feb	Beattock	Beattock Summit	1112 tons	28 mins	Standing start (looped)	23 mins (standing start)

It has now been let out of the loop 3 late. Maybe it has to present at the freight terminal at a particular time, & 41 early is not helpful?

It's looped at Beattock for 1S78 and 1S81 to pass. It was running early enough that it could have comfortably got to Motherwell before them, but it would be unusual to send the train into the next Network Rail zone (Scotland) running very early without prior permission in case it snarled up things by running out of path, also like you say the terminal would have to be able to accept it early. By the time any of this was agreed via control, it would probably be necessary to hold it for the booked trains to pass anyway.

In any case, they may have preferred to tackle Beattock from a standing start (as per schedule, out of the loop) to get an idea of class 66 vs 93 performance.

 

[Tester]

And here it (4Q38) is passing my house at Barton and Broughton loop.

View attachment 197796

The green fence is pretty rough close up!