Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[craigybagel]

Think there may have been a plan for the West Coast Sleeping trains . However the contract is with GBRf who are expecting 99s shortly

But the 99s can't and won't be used on sleeper services. Unless passengers want to spend the night very cold and dark.....

That said, if GBRF thought 93s were a good idea for sleepers they'd probably have bought some. I'm sure Stadler would have happily bundled some with their order for 99s.

 

[43096]

Think there may have been a plan for the West Coast Sleeping trains . However the contract is with GBRf who are expecting 99s shortly

Only in the overactive minds of some enthusiasts. Class 92 does the job very well.

 

[92002]

How many times does it have to be said that the 99s will not be fitted with ETH and will not be used on the Sleeper?

The sleepers use another locomotive for
ETH. Currently a 66 and 73. The trunck could easily be one or more 73s or a generator

 

[43096]

The sleepers use another locomotive for
ETH. Currently a 66 and 73. The trunck could easily be one or more 73s or a generator

The trunk haul (i.e. south of Edinburgh) is fine as it is - GBRf have invested heavily in the Class 92s and they have settled down to good reliability. In any case you can't use a 73 for the train supply for the full train as it isn't rated highly enough and you can't use a generator vehicle with the full length train due to platform length restrictions.

 

[D365]

According to a reliable source Freightliner have purchased some/most of the 12 serviceable ex-DB class 90s instead.

‘Instead’ is an interesting word. Were the Class 93s under serious consideration?

 

[Class15]

‘Instead’ is an interesting word. Were the Class 93s under serious consideration?

I do believe so. They would have been handy for London Gateway but, as they were not good enough for Ipswich-Felixstowe, FLR “opted out” as 90s can do as far as Ipswich anyway. 90s are cheaper, would be owned by FL, and also don’t have all the battery kit. Can change at Ripple Lane or Wembley for Gateway as well.

 

[Belfastmarty]

This is turning in to something of a saga. As a comparison the first 88 was delivered in January 2017 and the type entered use in June of that same year - just 5 months to commission the class. The first 93 was delivered in July 2023 and here we are 17 months later with limited evident progress. We really must hope that FL eventually decide to take some of these - would a 93 even be suitable as a replacement for a 90 for example - surely with a 35+ year difference in technology they would be more efficient and economic to operate ? If FL don't bite it's really hard to see what the use case for the 93s might be.

 

[Trainman40083]

Do the Class 93s put power back into the OHLE when breaking? That Al me.might make them more efficient than a Class 90..

 

[Nottingham59]

Do the Class 93s put power back into the OHLE when breaking? That Al me.might make them more efficient than a Class 90..

I haven't seen any reference to regenerative braking feeding power into the OHLE. But they've got 80kWh batteries to absorb any kinetic energy instead.

 

[Bald Rick]

I haven't seen any reference to regenerative braking feeding power into the OHLE. But they've got 80kWh batteries to absorb any kinetic energy instead.

Whilst I can’t rememebr about regen, what they don’t have is a resistor bank

 

[zwk500]

Do the Class 93s put power back into the OHLE when breaking? That Al me.might make them more efficient than a Class 90..

I haven't seen any reference to regenerative braking feeding power into the OHLE. But they've got 80kWh batteries to absorb any kinetic energy instead.

Whilst I can’t rememebr about regen, what they don’t have is a resistor bank

This Rail Technical Strategy page: https://railtechnicalstrategy.co.uk...i-mode-locomotives-for-rail-operations-group/ strongly suggests that they do:

When the Class 93 is using traction power from Overhead Line Equipment (OLE), regenerative braking enables power to be transferred back to the OLE during braking. When the locomotive is running either in diesel or hybrid mode, power from the regenerative braking will either be used to satisfy demands of auxiliary loads and electric train supply (ETS), or to charge the battery packs.

 

[Nottingham59]

This Rail Technical Strategy page: https://railtechnicalstrategy.co.uk...i-mode-locomotives-for-rail-operations-group/ strongly suggests that they do:

That's good to see. Thanks.

EDIT: I just found the Stadler case study for the 93, which I've not seen before. (Though no doubt it will be somewhere on this thread.)

https://stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/lclass93rog0423e.pdf

 

[Wyrleybart]

This is turning in to something of a saga. As a comparison the first 88 was delivered in January 2017 and the type entered use in June of that same year - just 5 months to commission the class. The first 93 was delivered in July 2023 and here we are 17 months later with limited evident progress. We really must hope that FL eventually decide to take some of these - would a 93 even be suitable as a replacement for a 90 for example - surely with a 35+ year difference in technology they would be more efficient and economic to operate ? If FL don't bite it's really hard to see what the use case for the 93s might be.

I wouldn't think FL are too interested in the 93 unless more were built. At the moment I think they have 90003-90016, 90018, 90040-90049 as their standard (and only) AC loco class. If they were to take some 93s they would become a dual fleet operator with all that involves. However Star could offer them a deal to make it worthwhile. Rolling down from Shap or Beattock they could certainly redeem some amps !!!!

 

[leomartin125]

Realtime Trains | 0Q42 1313 Worksop Down Yard to Crewe South Yard | 09/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Q42 1313 departure from Worksop Down Yard to Crewe South Yard on 09/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So, looks to be another opportunity to try and get a 93 over to Crewe. Be intrigued to see whether this will once again be 93001, or perhaps this time 93002…

Will post updates on any further paths as and when I see them.

 

[hwl]

Do the Class 93s put power back into the OHLE when breaking? That Al me.might make them more efficient than a Class 90..

I haven't seen any reference to regenerative braking feeding power into the OHLE. But they've got 80kWh batteries to absorb any kinetic energy instead.

Whilst I can’t remember about regen, what they don’t have is a resistor bank

93 have regen but not rheostatic capability as there isn''t enough space for engine/battery and resistor bank and resistor bank cooling (which takes up more space the the resistor bank).
99 have both regen and rheostatic but like many continental equivalents the rheostatic capability is ~25% of the regen capability as that represents at good trade off between total equipment volume and the amount it gets used/brake pad wear reduced.

Some existing locos also have rheostatic e.g. 92, 91, 90, 88, 70, 68 (and 50s had pre overhaul)
92 and 88 have regen but on 92 I'm not sure it is always used.

 

[AndrewE]

93 have regen but not rheostatic capability as there isn''t enough space for engine/battery and resistor bank and resistor bank cooling (which takes up more space the the resistor bank).
99 have both regen and rheostatic but like many continental equivalents the rheostatic capability is ~25% of the regen capability as that represents at good trade off between total equipment volume and the amount it gets used/brake pad wear reduced.

Some existing locos also have rheostatic e.g. 92, 91, 90, 88, 70, 68 (and 50s had pre overhaul)
92 and 88 have regen but on 92 I'm not sure it is always used.

I believe that US Cl 66s have rheo braking but there isn't space for the resistor grid and cooling kit within the UK loading gauge, which accounts for their (reported) poor braking...

 

[Bertie the bus]

This is turning in to something of a saga. As a comparison the first 88 was delivered in January 2017 and the type entered use in June of that same year - just 5 months to commission the class.

It took just over half that amount of time to commission them. They started hauling intermodals in June but they entered service in early May (hauling a couple of railtours) and were delivered towards the end of January.

So far it has taken ROG 5 times as long and the testing of the 93s still isn't complete.

 

[Carlisle]

So far it has taken ROG 5 times as long and the testing of the 93s still isn't complete.

Another ‘Orion’ style debacle from ROG

 

[43096]

I believe that US Cl 66s have rheo braking but there isn't space for the resistor grid and cooling kit within the UK loading gauge, which accounts for their (reported) poor braking...

There is no such thing as a “US Cl 66” - it’s an export model. But locos from both main manufacturers - EMD and GE - have dynamic (rheostatic) braking, but not all types have it.

 

[ExRes]

I'm sure it's already been said but ROG may be deliberately holding the 93s back on financial grounds, does anyone know how long the 37s have been hired from Europhoenix for as an example?

 

[DimTim]

Realtime Trains | 0Q42 1313 Worksop Down Yard to Crewe South Yard | 09/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Q42 1313 departure from Worksop Down Yard to Crewe South Yard on 09/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So, looks to be another opportunity to try and get a 93 over to Crewe. Be intrigued to see whether this will once again be 93001, or perhaps this time 93002…

Will post updates on any further paths as and when I see them.

There are paths both Monday & Tuesday nights for light engine runs to Carlisle & return 0Q06. 0Q42

 

[Lemmy282]

There are paths both Monday & Tuesday nights for light engine runs to Carlisle & return 0Q06. 0Q42

37423 hauling 93001 just passed through Woodhouse on way to Crewe

 

[Trainman40083]

37423 hauling 93001 just passed through Woodhouse on way to Crewe

Via Derby instead of original Erewash

 

[DRS66]

Hello all, does anyone know if 93001 will be on the 5N42 from Castle Donington Emdc to Crewe South Yard tomorrow?
Any information would be appreciated.

 

[Trainman40083]

Hello all, does anyone know if 93001 will be on the 5N42 from Castle Donington Emdc to Crewe South Yard tomorrow?
Any information would be appreciated.

I thought the Class 93 was already at Crewe, having moved on Monday

 

[800001]

Hello all, does anyone know if 93001 will be on the 5N42 from Castle Donington Emdc to Crewe South Yard tomorrow?
Any information would be appreciated.

The 93 is at Crewe. It moved there yesterday hauled by 37423.

Most likely 5N42 will just be a 37 and the Mk3 stock.

 

[DRS66]

The 93 is at Crewe. It moved there yesterday hauled by 37423.

Most likely 5N42 will just be a 37 and the Mk3 stock.

Thank you very much!

 

[800001]

93001 is currently on what I believe is its first mainline run on electric / 25kV, running as 0Q06 2227 Crewe South Yard to Carlisle.

 

[92002]

93001 is currently on what I believe is its first mainline run on electric / 25kV, running as 0Q06 2227 Crewe South Yard to Carlisle.

Light engine to Carlisle seems to have been a success this morning.
Loaded tests runs in for tonight and tomorrow night. To Carlisle as 5Q06.

So if all goes well we could move on to the next part of the acceptance plan.

Slowly but surely getting there.

 

[Bob Price]

Seen a couple of photos on a closed Facebook group of the loco at Carlisle. So far so good