Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Trainman40083]

The managing director stepped down... Who else would you like to see go?

It is ridiculous though. Idk why these trains are somehow so much worse than every other 80x type.

Well, they are said to be 70% different from other 80x types.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Idk why these trains are somehow so much worse than every other 80x type.

The technical explanation is that it's not an 80x because of the amount that was changed to get 4 generators into 5 shorter carriages.
The doors open the other way. They have different traction motors, different cabs and are made of different metal.

I haven't seen anything authoritative on whether the amount of change from 80x was known at the time of the tender, or whether it snowballed in the design phases and Hitachi failed to manage that change. But given how late the programme already was when 810s started emerging from the factory, I do think a snowball effect is very plausible.

The management explanation is that Hitachi from top to bottom failed to manage this change. And if - as some allege - they put a dodgy B-team of Italians who'd previously royally mucked up the Fyra contract in charge, then Hitachi in Japan failed to properly supervise them.

 

[Railperf]

The technical explanation is that it's not an 80x because of the amount that was changed to get 4 generators into 5 shorter carriages.
The doors open the other way. They have different traction motors, different cabs and are made of different metal.

I haven't seen anything authoritative on whether the amount of change from 80x was known at the time of the tender, or whether it snowballed in the design phases and Hitachi failed to manage that change. But given how late the programme already was when 810s started emerging from the factory, I do think a snowball effect is very plausible.

The management explanation is that Hitachi from top to bottom failed to manage this change. And if - as some allege - they put a dodgy B-team of Italians who'd previously royally mucked up the Fyra contract in charge, then Hitachi in Japan failed to properly supervise them.

I was in Italy last week and the ex-Fyra trainsets seem to be running reliably on the Milan to Venice route now. In Trenitalia guise they seem a good train. So there is realistic hope that the 810 issues will eventually be solved.
What seemed to happen in Holland and Belgium was that the relevant authorities just decided to reject the trains and cancel the contract after a short period of poor operation. They eventually spot hired some locos and coaches to run a slower 160 km/h service.
It appears the lack of rolling stock available to fill in for the 810's - had they been rejected - and the impending off-lease of the Class 222's meant that rejection of the Class 810 fleet was simply NOT an option.
Is there any news as to whether Class 221's will now be hired in to fill in for Class 222's being off-leased to Scotrail?

 

[50002Superb]

There was a horrible burning smell coming from 810014 as if just passed me at Long Eaton

 

[positron]

The technical explanation is that it's not an 80x because of the amount that was changed to get 4 generators into 5 shorter carriages.
The doors open the other way. They have different traction motors, different cabs and are made of different metal.

I haven't seen anything authoritative on whether the amount of change from 80x was known at the time of the tender, or whether it snowballed in the design phases and Hitachi failed to manage that change. But given how late the programme already was when 810s started emerging from the factory, I do think a snowball effect is very plausible.

The management explanation is that Hitachi from top to bottom failed to manage this change. And if - as some allege - they put a dodgy B-team of Italians who'd previously royally mucked up the Fyra contract in charge, then Hitachi in Japan failed to properly supervise them.

I knew they were shorter carriages but didn't necessarily realise quite how drastically different they were. Like you say it does seem likely that things snowballed as they realised more and more things would need adjusting to make it work.

Are there any indications on if the 810s need remedial works or is it just "software" fixes needed to get their reliability up?

 

[positron]

Yeah changing trains with a 40 year life span (maybe not in this case) match a restricted infrastructure rather than just updating infrastructure does feel a little silly.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yeah changing trains with a 40 year life span (maybe not in this case) match a restricted infrastructure rather than just updating infrastructure does feel a little silly.

Is still seems odd to me they didn't do the electrification Wigston to Leicester, so they could change mode in the platform, rather than at speed.

 

[800001]

From Monday 19th October, EMR are planning to operate 96% of the timetable compared to 92% at the moment, so performance of the units must be improving.

Richard Clinnick (@Clinnick1) on X

From 19 October, @EastMidRailway says it will operate 96% of its planned timetable.

x.com

East Midlands Railway (EMR), operated by Transport UK, has announced plans to increase its Intercity timetable from Monday, 19 October, taking a further significant step towards restoring its full planned service.


Following the introduction of a temporary reduced timetable in July, EMR increased its Intercity operation from 87% to 92% of the full planned timetable from Tuesday, 1 September. This increase was supported by improved operational stability across EMR's Intercity fleet.


Since the introduction of the 92% timetable, EMR has continued to work closely with Hitachi Rail, the Department for Transport (DfT), DfTO and other industry partners to improve fleet reliability and ensure the resilience needed to operate additional services safely and consistently.


This continued improvement has given EMR greater confidence to increase its


Intercity operation from 92% to 96% of the full planned timetable from Monday, 19 October.

 

[duffield]

From Monday 19th October, EMR are planning to operate 96% of the timetable compared to 92% at the moment, so performance of the units must be improving.

I'm glad they are restoring the 1605 St. Pancras to Nottingham service, I've hit that gap a few times recently.

 

[Killingworth]

I'm glad they are restoring the 1605 St. Pancras to Nottingham service, I've hit that gap a few times recently.

Fuller details on their website; https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/reducedtimetable

 

[222001]

Fuller details on their website; https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/reducedtimetable

Looks like they’ll need an extra train. Another 810 diagram perhaps? The previous 87-92% increase was just a diagram shuffle that didn’t actually increase unit requirement.

 

[43096]

What seemed to happen in Holland and Belgium was that the relevant authorities just decided to reject the trains and cancel the contract after a short period of poor operation.

That is rather underplaying it. There were fundamental issues with them - the report produced for SNCB NMBS was damning.

They eventually spot hired some locos and coaches to run a slower 160 km/h service.

The locos were not spot hired but on longer term lease. NS also bought 45 locos for the service.

The stock was predominantly already NS owned and brought back into service.

 

[Amos390]

New RAIL article regarding the 810s (and the rest of EMRs fleet), and these are some of the more interesting bits:

From September 1-29, both Class 810s and ‘222s’ were withdrawn from service mid-diagram on at least 21 occasions. This included to 810013 and 810018 being taken out of service four times in 11 days and five times in 21 days respectively. Some of these withdrawals led to following services being cancelled.

However, delay minutes attributed to ‘810s’ has decreased. From peaking at 5,585 minutes in Period 2 (May 3-May 30), numbers have fallen to 5,367 (Period 3 – May 31-June 27), 5,344 (Period 4 – June 28-July 25) and 3,613 (Period 5 – July 26-August 22).

It is hoped two more Auroras will also be accepted for passenger service in late November. The pair (810017/020) have been at Long Marston Rail Innovation Centre for nearly two months.

 

[superkev]

New RAIL article regarding the 810s (and the rest of EMRs fleet), and these are some of the more interesting bits:

Ive lost track as to:-
● which units are accepted and in regular service
● which are accepted but not in passenger service.
● which were accepted but are withdrawn for modifucations.
● which are near entering service presumably like 019 which has been out recently on test.
● which are still under construction or commissioning.

Thanks
K

 

[Amos390]

Ive lost track as to:-
● which units are accepted and in regular service
● which are accepted but not in passenger service.
● which were accepted but are withdrawn for modifucations.
● which are near entering service presumably like 019 which has been out recently on test.
● which are still under construction or commissioning.

Thanks
K

As far as I am aware, the list goes:
In Service:

• 810006
• 810010
• 810011
• 810012
• 810013
• 810014
• 810016
• 810018
• 810019*
• 810022

Crew Training Units:

• 810008
• 810009

In Old Dalby/Long Marson for testing:

• 810017
• 810020

Long-term storage:

• 810015

*810019 has been returned to EMR following modifications at Old Dalby, however has not carried passengers since it's return a few weeks back.

Feel free anyone to point out any inaccuracies in this list, I have also not included any of the units that are in Newton Aycliffe currently (including 001, 003 and 004) even if they are confirmed to have been fully constructed and have tested along the mainline in the past.

 

[liamf656]

Ive lost track as to:-
● which units are accepted and in regular service
● which are accepted but not in passenger service.
● which were accepted but are withdrawn for modifucations.
● which are near entering service presumably like 019 which has been out recently on test.
● which are still under construction or commissioning.

Thanks
K

006 - In service
008 - Accepted but dedicated training unit
009 - Accepted but dedicated training unit
010 - In service
011 - In service
012 - In service
013 - In service
014 - In service
015 - Damaged in the derailment
016 - In service
018 - In service
019 - Back to Newton Aycliffe for some issues to be rectified
022 - In service

All other units not in that list are still yet to be accepted by EMR. 017/020 are next to be delivered

 

[Amos390]

019 - Back to Newton Aycliffe for some issues to be rectified

When did 019 go back, I cannot seem to see a timetable since it's last test run on Thursday 24th?

 

[Spartacus]

Yeah changing trains with a 40 year life span (maybe not in this case) match a restricted infrastructure rather than just updating infrastructure does feel a little silly.

I dread to think of the coast of remodelling St Pancras and the approaches, especially so soon after it was previously done. For obvious reasons you can only go in one direction.

 

[800001]

006 - In service
008 - Accepted but dedicated training unit
009 - Accepted but dedicated training unit
010 - In service
011 - In service
012 - In service
013 - In service
014 - In service
015 - Damaged in the derailment
016 - In service
018 - In service
019 - Back to Newton Aycliffe for some issues to be rectified
022 - In service

All other units not in that list are still yet to be accepted by EMR. 017/020 are next to be delivered

When did 019 return to Aycliffe?

To my knowledge that moved back to Derby Etches Park.

 

[Spartacus]

Is still seems odd to me they didn't do the electrification Wigston to Leicester, so they could change mode in the platform, rather than at speed.

Depending on what happens it may be a blessing in disguise.

The whole Wigston/Knighton area's a huge bottleneck and needs remodelling probably with flyovers. I've heard somewhere that options are being looked at. Had electrification gone past Kilby Bridge I'd expect any prospect of that post electrification would be off the cards for decades.

 

[Trainman40083]

Depending on what happens it may be a blessing in disguise.

The whole Wigston/Knighton area's a huge bottleneck and needs remodelling probably with flyovers. I've heard somewhere that options are being looked at. Had electrification gone past Kilby Bridge I'd expect any prospect of that post electrification would be off the cards for decades.

I know what you mean. Just imagine what Wigston would look like, if there were capacity enhancements at Haughley Junction and Ely, pushing more container trains that way (some of course could bypass London and the southern part of the ECML.

 

[50002Superb]

I last saw 019 at Etches Park on 29 August.

TrainMapper says it worked 3A25 and 3A26 on 24 September

 

[Amos390]

Did some digging and 019 was last reported to have ran on the 24th September operating 3A25 and 3A26, and was also allocated to 3A25/6/7/8 on Friday 25th which were all activated but subsequently cancelled for cause TG - Issue with train crew. It has not been allocated to any services since and there has not been any moves out of Etches since then, so the timetable suggests it should still be there.

 

[Merle Haggard]

New RAIL article regarding the 810s (and the rest of EMRs fleet), and these are some of the more interesting bits:

By saying that there were 21 failures (of 222 and 810 combined) in 29 days (September 1st - 29th) there is the simple implication that there's on average less than one failure per day.

This assertion does seem to fly in the face of experience, however; there were few, if any, days when there was not a single failure. By contrast, a couple of Saturdays ago four 810s failed in service, and multiple failures are common.

Perhaps, however, to massage the figures better the definition has been very carefully chosen. "Withdrawn from service mid-diagram" would not include the situation where a set does not manager to stagger out of Etches Park to take up a diagram, and this is frequent.

There's already been one 810 failure today, when 810014 after losing 40 minutes running finally expired at East Midlands Parkway just before 0300 ('problem with the brakes') on the last down Nottingham.

 

[londonmidland]

810011 working 1D43 1335 St Pancras International to Nottingham has terminated short at Luton, due to a problem with the brakes.

 

[SteveB000]

There does seem to be some improvement. The table shows a comparison between the 23rd and the 30th of September using RTT (with its known limitations). There is still a higher chance of delay on a 810 vs 222. A spreadsheet is included for those who need the data (:

	2026/09/23	2026/09/30
Total Trains	127	130
Class 5 ECS Cancelled	0	6
Passenger Trains Scheduled	127	124
Trains terminated/started short	7	2
Trains cancelled	4	0
Operated Trains	123	124
Total Arrival delay (mins)	579	469
Average Arrival Delay (mins)	4.56	3.78
Max Delay (mins)	56	39
Arrivals within 5 minutes (qty)	91	97.00
Percentage within 5 Minutes	72%	78%
Percentage within 10 minutes	83%	94%
No of Class 222 operating	12	12
No of Class 810 operating	7	6

 

[LowLevel]

810011 working 1D43 1335 St Pancras International to Nottingham has terminated short at Luton, due to a problem with the brakes.

810013 also failed on the 1235 Nottingham and terminated at West Hampstead.

 

[Amos390]

Will be interesting now that Q3 has ended to see how EMR stacked up with the rest of the UK (if they release a full Q3 report), presuming there’s quite a bit more delay and cancellations but by how much we’ll have to see.

 

[Merle Haggard]

810011 working 1D43 1335 St Pancras International to Nottingham has terminated short at Luton, due to a problem with the brakes.

Did slightly better than 810013 on 1D38 12.35 St Pancras - Nottingham, which threw in the towel at West Hampstead, 'problem with the train'.

 

[londonmidland]

810018 17:32 Sheffield to London terminated early at Derby due to ‘a problem with the traction equipment’.