Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Spartacus]

I've been looking at RTT the last few days and the 810s do seem to be improving which is good.
A few cancelled services today due to failure of trains (reason gave by RTT)but not sure if are 222s.
4 still out now and running well with the 5th finished it's diagram for the day and prob back at Etches Park now.

With a reduced service they've more chance of having a spare unit available on Etches Park so can swap one out easier if it develops problems. Certainly been happening at Derby (including late departures off Etches Park due to unit issues depot, I think there was one swapped at Nottingham, another service restarted at Leicester.

 

[DannyMich2018]

With a reduced service they've more chance of having a spare unit available on Etches Park so can swap one out easier if it develops problems. Certainly been happening at Derby (including late departures off Etches Park due to unit issues depot, I think there was one swapped at Nottingham, another service restarted at Leicester.

Yes that's right of course but just by what I'm gathering by looking at RTT is the 810s are improving. Looks like the same 6 units were out yesterday with no failures and I couldn't see any significant late running either. Up ntil not long ago 1 or 2 units would fail daily so 6/9 available 810s were in use, significantly better than the 360 availability.

 

[Amos390]

Apparently word on the street is that if this scenario with the 810s gets any worse EMR could have to lease some 221s off XC for the time being (because they are quite similar to the 222s so won’t take much to train up on), however like I said this is just a rumour I’ve heard from a couple people, nothing that has actually been confirmed by a member of EMR crew or someone with that sort of status to know this.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Apparently word on the street is that if this scenario with the 810s gets any worse EMR could have to lease some 221s off XC for the time being (because they are quite similar to the 222s so won’t take much to train up on), however like I said this is just a rumour I’ve heard from a couple people, nothing that has actually been confirmed by a member of EMR crew or someone with that sort of status to know this.

It isn't a rumour.

 

[Amos390]

It isn't a rumour.

Ah ok, the first I’d heard of it was from another spotter at Derby yesterday so wasn’t sure, thanks for the confirmation though.

 

[1D54]

I'm surprised XC have units to lease in the first place what with the number of single ones criss crossing the country that should be in pairs to alleviate the dreadful overcrowding situation that it seems they suffer with on a daily basis.

 

[Amos390]

What about the ex-Avanti ones in Litchurch that aren’t in use currently, that way XC don’t actually have to reduce their fleet by much. Although are those 221s even CrossCountry’s at the moment?

Also if EMR were to use some of those, do you think they’d use the tilt like Avanti did or without the tilt like how XC use theirs?

 

[D365]

Apparently word on the street is that if this scenario with the 810s gets any worse EMR could have to lease some 221s off XC for the time being (because they are quite similar to the 222s so won’t take much to train up on), however like I said this is just a rumour I’ve heard from a couple people, nothing that has actually been confirmed by a member of EMR crew or someone with that sort of status to know this.

It isn't a rumour.

What about the ex-Avanti ones in Litchurch that aren’t in use currently, that way XC don’t actually have to reduce their fleet by much. Although are those 221s even CrossCountry’s at the moment?

Also if EMR were to use some of those, do you think they’d use the tilt like Avanti did or without the tilt like how XC use theirs?

Already being discussed in the Class 810 stopgap speculative thread.

 

[Amos390]

Already being discussed in the Class 810 stopgap speculative thread.

Ah thanks, didn’t see that thread was there

 

[liamf656]

Apparently word on the street is that if this scenario with the 810s gets any worse EMR could have to lease some 221s off XC for the time being (because they are quite similar to the 222s so won’t take much to train up on), however like I said this is just a rumour I’ve heard from a couple people, nothing that has actually been confirmed by a member of EMR crew or someone with that sort of status to know this.

It's already been discussed at great length in this thread

Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-810-for-east-midlands-railway-construction-introduction-updates.195052/page-115#post-7169043 Recent rumour control (and I emphasise RUMOUR, albeit from “inside”)… First 222s to leave in December for full refurb prior to...

www.railforums.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2026 ==

I'm surprised XC have units to lease in the first place what with the number of single ones criss crossing the country that should be in pairs to alleviate the dreadful overcrowding situation that it seems they suffer with on a daily basis.

The 221s in question are ex Avanti and currently off lease

 

[1D54]

So they are not XC at all. Found the correct thread for this discussion. Thanks

 

[apinnard]

What about the ex-Avanti ones in Litchurch that aren’t in use currently, that way XC don’t actually have to reduce their fleet by much. Although are those 221s even CrossCountry’s at the moment?

Also if EMR were to use some of those, do you think they’d use the tilt like Avanti did or without the tilt like how XC use theirs?

They would not use tilt on the MML as the TASS (tilt authorisation speed supervision) balises that authorise the use of tilt are only installed on the WCML (and were previously also installed between Oxford and Banbury.)

 

[Amos390]

They would not use tilt on the MML as the TASS (tilt authorisation speed supervision) balises that authorise the use of tilt are only installed on the WCML (and were previously also installed between Oxford and Banbury.)

Ah ok thanks, makes sense.

Also 810012 has been pulled at Leicester off 1C41 and is returning to Derby.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ah ok, the first I’d heard of it was from another spotter at Derby yesterday so wasn’t sure, thanks for the confirmation though.

isn't it the 6 off lease 221s that are eventually due to go to XC - article in Rail magazine current edition covers this

EDIT - apols - point already made some posts after I read yours!

 

[Amos390]

isn't it the 6 off lease 221s that are eventually due to go to XC - article in Rail magazine current edition covers this

EDIT - apols - point already made some posts after I read yours!

Yeah eventually they will be off to XC.

Also in this RAIL article was some numbers regarding the performance of the 810s and 222s compared to other units of similar classes.

This table is the average mileage between failures (I think higher is better here):


And this one is the total amount of minutes of delay accumulated by each class:

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It isn't a rumour.

Do we know of a time of when we might see a 221 heading over there then to start training?

 

[liamf656]

Do we know of a time of when we might see a 221 heading over there then to start training?

I'd assume (and hope) that EMR will want these in service as quickly as possible. They have made their first reference in a video on Facebook, which I have attached in the speculative thread:

Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

I am intrigued by what can be considered more preferable in terms of testing. Pootling round the circular track at Long Marston at 25mph, or belting up and down the RIDC at Melton at up to 125mph, although obviously having to stop and change ends. I notice there is a youtube clip of 810004 at...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[ainsworth74]

Okay I think we need to bring the discussion about 221s for EMR to a close there please. This thread is about the 810s themselves. The options for covering to the present dire issues is being discussed a separate thread that has been linked a few times including directly about this post. Any further posts about 221s will be deleted as off-topic.

As a reminder if there is a post in this thread that you would like to reply to but is more suitable for the other thread simply press "+Quote" on the post in this thread (bottom right of every post) and then go to the correct thread and press "Insert quotes..." on the bottom left of the reply box. You will then be able to reply to the post from one thread in the correct thread for that discussion.

 

[MDB1images]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00058/2026-08-05/detailed

Reported as 810023 on Merchant Park-Doncaster

 

[nigelsporne]

Do we know which unit maybe going to Long Marston today please? Thanks in advance.

 

[800001]

Do we know which unit maybe going to Long Marston today please? Thanks in advance.

Until It leaves factory, no.
Guess would be 021 or 023.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==

Do we know which unit maybe going to Long Marston today please? Thanks in advance.

Path has auto activated. Usually an indicator that it will not run.
Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[1D54]

Until It leaves factory, no.
Guess would be 021 or 023.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==


Path has auto activated. Usually an indicator that it will not run.
Happy to be proved wrong.

Cancelled.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Don't think I've seen this covered in the 810 thread but yesterday EMR have put out a media release relating to 810 introduction and strikes. It feels very unlikely that - given the wider attention to EMR - this release was not written with/authorised by DfT

EMR statement following this weekend's strike action | East Midlands Railway News

News from East Midlands Railway

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

When EMR selected Hitachi to build and maintain the new Aurora intercity trains and to maintain the outgoing fleet, we did so based on its global reputation for engineering excellence and the proven performance of its trains across the UK rail network and internationally. That reputation is why we remain confident that Hitachi, which has also been invited by Northern to bid for its new train fleet, will address all the performance issues that we have consistently pressed for

General observations
- new action plan agreed to solve issues with both 810 and 222 fleets
- staying to the line that the fleet is fully authorised by ORR and is therefore safe
- mention of the Northern procurement, where Hitachi are one of the potential suppliers

Trying to read between the lines... the general puffing up of Hitachi does carry the whiff of EMR re-justifying it's original decision to select Hitachi. The mentions of Action Plan and Global Leadership suggest there has been escalation by EMR and a feeling that this has secured extra commitments from Hitachi to solve the issues with both fleets, and I think is saying "You tell us you have a global reputation for excellence, now prove it!"

If I worked for Hitachi, I also would take the reference to the Northern procurement as code for "If you can't get a grip on EMR, and quickly, you can forget about Northern".

 

[Freemo]

If Northern get units built by Hitachi Italy I might be giving those services a miss for a while.

 

[Amos390]

If Northern get units built by Hitachi Italy I might be giving those services a miss for a while.

So might Northern for 3 years

 

[paulmch]

Don't think I've seen this covered in the 810 thread but yesterday EMR have put out a media release relating to 810 introduction and strikes. It feels very unlikely that - given the wider attention to EMR - this release was not written with/authorised by DfT.

And perhaps an indication that it was the previous statement that cost the MD his job?

 

[InTheEastMids]

And perhaps an indication that it was the previous statement that cost the MD his job?

I think that statement would also have gone to DfT for approval so I don't think so

 

[Hubjhbuy]

Don't think I've seen this covered in the 810 thread but yesterday EMR have put out a media release relating to 810 introduction and strikes. It feels very unlikely that - given the wider attention to EMR - this release was not written with/authorised by DfT

EMR statement following this weekend's strike action | East Midlands Railway News

News from East Midlands Railway

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

General observations
- new action plan agreed to solve issues with both 810 and 222 fleets
- staying to the line that the fleet is fully authorised by ORR and is therefore safe
- mention of the Northern procurement, where Hitachi are one of the potential suppliers

Trying to read between the lines... the general puffing up of Hitachi does carry the whiff of EMR re-justifying it's original decision to select Hitachi. The mentions of Action Plan and Global Leadership suggest there has been escalation by EMR and a feeling that this has secured extra commitments from Hitachi to solve the issues with both fleets, and I think is saying "You tell us you have a global reputation for excellence, now prove it!"

If I worked for Hitachi, I also would take the reference to the Northern procurement as code for "If you can't get a grip on EMR, and quickly, you can forget about Northern".

This looks written by a spad in the DfT. To me this makes me feel like the reason the managing director left the job was because he authorised the direct blaming of Hitachi and the DfT for some reason didn’t like that (perhaps they want to preserve a relationship with Hitachi).

 

[WesternLancer]

This looks written by a spad in the DfT. To me this makes me feel like the reason the managing director left the job was because he authorised the direct blaming of Hitachi and the DfT for some reason didn’t like that (perhaps they want to preserve a relationship with Hitachi).

I don't think you loose your job for what is that wording in a press statement (like the press statements under under discussion anyway).

But you might sign off such wording if you knew you were leaving anyway

 

[Amos390]

On 810014 at the moment, all seems normal in my carriage, unit arrived on time (well, on time in UK terms, think was a couple mins late at most), no glaring issues like bad air con or PA systems, nothing but a dodgy screen which I have attached, hurt not showing the proper text (1 of 2 screens working though in the carriage so not an issue really, both monitor style screens are working too which is a first for me), quite quiet too.