Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[gabrielhj07]

And Airbus 320Neos roll off the production line and in to service in a matter of days.

They’ve only been making them for 40 years! (ish)

 

[43096]

And Airbus 320Neos roll off the production line and in to service in a matter of days.

How many hours of flying do they do before they depart for the relevant operator?

When I was in Hamburg for a week, planes were up several times a day all week flying for several hours before leaving for delivery to the operators.

It isn't like they screw the last piece together and send it on its way.

They key point is that it is a production line - essentially a standard product with certain features (external livery, internal fit) customisable by the customer - but the core aircraft is highly standardised. In the railway context, the Siemens Vectron loco is a similar production-line product, high standardised and going straight into service.

The 810 is anything but - it is 33 trains. In contrast, Siemens have built over 2000 Vectrons.

 

[paulmch]

They’ve only been making them for 40 years! (ish)

And yet hundreds of them have been grounded over the last few years, some nearly fresh out of the factory!

 

[Davester50]

They’ve only been making them for 40 years! (ish)

It's not the same aircraft rolling off the line as it was 40 years ago.
Maybe the railway could learn about building something less complex than a 320 that works well out the box?

 

[Nym]

AT what point do EMR say no more deliveries until the ones they already have delivered can be made to work reliably?

At what point to Eversholt / Beacon say, "Nope, I want my trains back."

 

[43096]

At what point to Eversholt / Beacon say, "Nope, I want my trains back."

After the ScotRail contract is signed and when the sets need to start going through refurbishment before transfer.

 

[Railperf]

IMechE promoting their meeting last week said that Class 810 is:

"the first Hybrid intercity train with the same performance in both electric and diesel modes."

So far, this is not being reflected by a single unit out of the seven delivered so far. Why do people make these claims?

 

[43096]

EMR Head of new trains Rachel Turner is reported to have said last week that Class 810's are: and I quote

"the first Hybrid intercity train with the same performance in both electric and diesel modes."

So far, this is not being reflected by a single unit out of the seven delivered so far. Why do people make these claims?

Because pretty substantially it is a reasonable claim. It's only performance obsessives who would reasonably question it.

 

[Trainman40083]

EMR Head of new trains Rachel Turner is reported to have said last week that Class 810's are: and I quote

"the first Hybrid intercity train with the same performance in both electric and diesel modes."

So far, this is not being reflected by a single unit out of the seven delivered so far. Why do people make these claims?

In the hope that they don't get challenged?

 

[NSEWonderer]

It's not the same aircraft rolling off the line as it was 40 years ago.
Maybe the railway could learn about building something less complex than a 320 that works well out the box?

It practically is same with the 737. There aren't much major changes on both the A320 and 737 other than engine upgrades and few technological changes like digital gauges and the(not mentioned mcas on the 737 etc) from inception.

Its a big reason as to why those planes were marketed to the airlines as being a easy transition from model to model in which again with the 737 severally lead to incidents as pilots would fly and feel the sane aircraft as the previous model but not have learnt or remember one new change in the newer model and hence had issues occur.

In the case of trains the jump from a HST to an IET is quite a significant change of which the Iet itself hasn't been developed for the amount of years an A320 or 737 has. Sure if we had companies keep refining let's say an IET over 40 years then you'd pretty much yes get closer to having a train work out the box more times then not, but that reality doesn't exist as unlike the aviation world, railways have more than two big manufactures of rolling stock and a plethora of different requirements and specs, where aviation has a set few.

 

[westcoaster]

Saw 004 out on test last night at Bedford. First time seeing a test run in a while.

 

[Amos390]

Finally 3 810s are back in service again, with 006 on 1C17, 010 on 1B07 and 014 on 1C11. 009 is also on 3A12 and 011 on 3A23, so both driver tranings are operating today.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Finally 3 810s are back in service again, with 006 on 1C17, 010 on 1B07 and 014 on 1C11. 009 is also on 3A12 and 011 on 3A23, so both driver tranings are operating today.

Not quite a perfect world - the usual sacrifice, 06.06 Kettering - Nottingam cancelled 'a problem at the depot'. Melton - St Pancras service cancelled in consequence.

 

[Railperf]

Because pretty substantially it is a reasonable claim. It's only performance obsessives who would reasonably question it.

Just to clarify, i have now been informed the statement "
"the first Hybrid intercity train with the same performance in both electric and diesel modes."
was was simply a statement made by IMechE in promoting their meeting last week in Derby with EMR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2026 ==

Because pretty substantially it is a reasonable claim. It's only performance obsessives who would reasonably question it.

I understand there is a performance specification that the 810's have to meet

Is expecting the train to perform as specified in the contract obsessive?

 

[1D54]

This morning 1B07 - 05:49 NOT-STP has been cancelled due to more trains than usual needing repair at the same time.

This is a booked 810 service so obviously no spare 222 to do it either.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Just to clarify, i have now been informed the statement "
"the first Hybrid intercity train with the same performance in both electric and diesel modes."
was was simply a statement made by IMechE in promoting their meeting last week in Derby with EMR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2026 ==


snip

This is a carefully-chosen statement - some might call it sophistry.
It does not compare the diesel mode performance of the hybrid with the electric performance of an electric only broadly similar train.
A Class 73 could achieve this objective by de-rating the electric traction power to that of the diesel engine...
How does the performance of an 810 on diesel compare to an electric-only 8xx. Or to a 39x?

 

[Railperf]

This is a carefully-chosen statement - some might call it sophistry.
It does not compare the diesel mode performance of the hybrid with the electric performance of an electric only broadly similar train.
A Class 73 could achieve this objective by de-rating the electric traction power to that of the diesel engine...
How does the performance of an 810 on diesel compare to an electric-only 8xx. Or to a 39x?

Class 810 acceleration on diesel in its current settings is slower than all-electric classes 397 and class 801 as well as the diesel Class 222 it is replacing.
Class 801 will do 0 to 124mph in under 3 mins.
The Class 810 in diesel mode has only reached around 90mph in 3 mins.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Tonight both the 1705 and 1805 St Pancras - Nottingham trains are cancelled, the former because of '.. the on-board safety equipment' and the latter 'problem with the doors'
Both are shown as VAR on RTT so presumably 810s, diagrams DY701 and DY702

 

[Amos390]

Tonight both the 1705 and 1805 St Pancras - Nottingham trains are cancelled, the former because of '.. the on-board safety equipment' and the latter 'problem with the doors'
Both are shown as VAR on RTT so presumably 810s, diagrams DY701 and DY702

Yes, the one cancelled for In cab safety equipment failure was 810006, and doors was 810014

 

[ajp999]

Tonight both the 1705 and 1805 St Pancras - Nottingham trains are cancelled, the former because of '.. the on-board safety equipment' and the latter 'problem with the doors'
Both are shown as VAR on RTT so presumably 810s, diagrams DY701 and DY702

Not the best time for them to fail considering the already reduced service that has been running today due to the signalling problems at St. Pancras with the Nottingham services having to pick up the Wellingborough stops due to the cancellation of the Corby services. On a more positive note, there was a pair of 810's out on test on the Old Dalby test track yesterday.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Not the best time for them to fail considering the already reduced service that has been running today due to the signalling problems at St. Pancras with the Nottingham services having to pick up the Wellingborough stops due to the cancellation of the Corby services. On a more positive note, there was a pair of 810's out on test on the Old Dalby test track yesterday.

Second full day of total Corby cancellation (from St P).
The 17.32 Sheffield cancelled as well, so about 50% Inter City cancellations in the evening peak.

 

[720144]

810015 makes it’s first ever appearance on rtt, booked on one of the 2 test diagrams today.

 

[1D54]

810015 makes it’s first ever appearance on rtt, booked on one of the 2 test diagrams today.

3A27.

 

[liamf656]

810015 makes it’s first ever appearance on rtt, booked on one of the 2 test diagrams today.

Should be in passenger service next week all being well

 

[Merle Haggard]

Should be in passenger service next week all being well

Will that result in a 222 going off-lease? The number that went off-lease for Lumo was more than the number of 810 replacements, so more 810 might at first be just restoring the spares cover.

 

[liamf656]

Will that result in a 222 going off-lease? The number that went off-lease for Lumo was more than the number of 810 replacements, so more 810 might at first be just restoring the spares cover.

All being well we should receive another few 810s before the next 222 leaves

 

[Sonyman66]

810015 on 3A24 Beeston to Derby arrived 161 minutes late having had problems with on board safety systems not a good start for its first day

 

[GilfachFargoed]

Another poor start this morning - 0700 Sheffield - St Pancras cancelled due to 'doors' on the inward ECS to work it. 11:32 from St Pancras to start Derby with 810 014.

It doesn't seem to matter how many units are accepted for passenger service, reliably covering 3 passenger diagrams seems to be a problem.

 

[720144]

Should be in passenger service next week all being well

Great stuff, followed by that 016 in a fortnight.

 

[Railperf]

I'm hearing a possible explanation for Class 810 slow acceleration leaving stations in diesel mode is because the traction system has been programmed to deliver low power until the train has left the platform for 'noise reduction purposes.
So even if the driver whacks the controller to full power, the system only delivers a set amount of power until the train speed rises.

Considering that the same engines are used under Avanti Class 805 trains and are essentially just delivering slightly more power than other 80x engine types, one wonde@rs why these are deemed too noisy?

Is it me, or are they actually quieter than the 222 Cummins units?

In electric mode the 810's seem to develop around 16% more power at rail than a 'healthy' Class 222 in their current state of engine tuning - giving them up to 20 seconds advantage from station stops.
Shame that only applies south of Leicester.