What capacity issues?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
- Thread starter Jozhua
- Start date
What capacity issues?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Kite159
Veteran Member
4 platforms which can only take 2x 810s compared to other InterCity London terminals.
With the 810s capacity it shouldn't be a problem for a while.
As said repeatedly - you can’t get any more ’Inter City’ trains up the MML. 4 platforms is enough for the 6tph is the limit. 240m platforms is also enough - there’s only 2 types of Intercity train longer than this; an 11 car Pendolino, and a 2x5 car 80x. The former has roughly the same capacity as 2 x 810s. The latter has slightly more.
CTS1990
Member
Moving this discussion forward...am I right in thinking EMR delayed their introduction into service until late this year? Presumably testing in electric mode needs several months at least...
Snow1964
Established Member
Different people have said different things. Some have said electrically same as class 805 (which has been tested), others say it is different.
I would be very surprised if they tried to reinvent the wheel and decided to make 810s (which are being built virtually as follow ons to 805 and 807s fundamentally different). I am under impression the differences are in nose cones and interior fitment, not the propulsion system
Nym
Established Member
The size and shape of the internal racking is quite different between the 810 and other 80x series to get some extra space inside. Came to light when we were trying to fit things within the design.
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,311
I've kind of lost track of how far the wires will have got to by the time the 810s start - will it be Leicester?
There is no current firm commitment to wires north of Wigston South.
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 15,311
Thanks for info. Daft, obviously....
propulsion system is different. Uprated motors (and no doubt control gear) but fewer of them, 125mph design top speed.
How far is Wigston South to Leicester
Nottingham59
Established Member
It's only about 4 miles, but unlikely to be the next stage of MML electrification.
Four miles, you thought they could accomplish that.This country is a joke, and not even a funny one
zwk500
Veteran Member
Electrification needs to take into consideration the various proposals to make it easier to get freight from Nuneaton to Peterborough.
Nottingham59
Established Member
They could, easily. But there are three reasons why I don't think they will do Leicester next:
- There are proposals to add tracks to make a three or four track railway between Syston and Wigston though Leicester. Until a decision made on the future layout, it makes sense to electrify other sections first.
- There are no services which currently terminate at Leicester, so after extending from South Wigston to Leicester, they will still need bimodes to use the wires, and will still have to changeover somewhere.
- Electrification is grossly expensive, and politicians have chosen to use cost per single track km as the metric to drive down costs. The industry would be insane to electrify through Leicester as the next project, with all its junctions and platforms, and overbridges at urban density. Much more likely they will choose the simple and rural four-track section from Syston North to East Midlands Parkway next, as easiest to deliver the lowest cost per stkm. They will ignore the fact that no electric traction uses the slow lines, so that that some of the investment will have no economic return at all for many years.
Personally, I would do the next MML section at Sheffield, to be compatible with converting a number of routes in Yorkshire to battery operation.
The other reason being that Leicester is a problem due to the low bridge at the south end of the platforms. It’s too low for OLE so NR looked at dropping the trackbed but the sewer/water table was right underneath so that canned that. I heard they were looking at using a contact conductive sheet/strip or something like that on the bridge ceiling so the pan can contact without the need for wires to be suspended. I’ve heard that there will be a gap between Wigston and then the wires will restart at Syston when/if they ever wire past Leicester. Think the plan was to run 360’s from Leicester, but I doubt that will happen. Quite a gap and a pain having to pan down engine on, drive a few miles then pan up, engine off etc.
Nottingham59
Established Member
My understanding was that the station bridge at Leicester gives enough clearance for an insulated coating to be used on the underside of the bridge, as was used on the Intersection Bridge in Cardiff.
Cardiff bridge avoids £40m demolition thanks to electric resistant paint
In a world first, electric resistant paint combined with voltage-controlled clearance (VCC) has helped make a Victorian railway bridge usable by new electric trains, avoiding weeks of passenger disruption and train delays in the process.
www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk
Though the issue at Leicester will be the low height of the wires and therefore the pantograph horns just above the adjacent platform. How they will address that, I don't know.
That’s exactly what I’d heard - sorry I couldn’t remember what it was called!My understanding was that the station bridge at Leicester gives enough clearance for an insulated coating to be used on the underside of the bridge, as was used on the Intersection Bridge in Cardiff.
Cardiff bridge avoids £40m demolition thanks to electric resistant paint
In a world first, electric resistant paint combined with voltage-controlled clearance (VCC) has helped make a Victorian railway bridge usable by new electric trains, avoiding weeks of passenger disruption and train delays in the process.
Though the issue at Leicester will be the low height of the wires and therefore the pantograph horns just above the adjacent platform. How they will address that, I don't know.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Once upon a time, Tyco used to do a plastic insulator for just that purpose.. Low demand meant they discontinued it. Great at Birmingham International when the pigeons say on the wires above a Pendo (flash, bang)
Jozhua
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 1,891
Friendly place in speculative for debates around the merits of the 810s!
Ideally we'd like to keep this to just updates and some discussion around bringing the trains into service, rather than about the merits of the trains once they are in service. Hopefully that makes sense!
www.railforums.co.uk
Ideally we'd like to keep this to just updates and some discussion around bringing the trains into service, rather than about the merits of the trains once they are in service. Hopefully that makes sense!
Class 810 - The Right Fit For EMR?
I've seen a lot of debate in the main Class 810 introduction thread, so creating this as a friendly space for debate around the merits of the 810 including but not limited to... -Seats -Capacity -Possibility of keeping 222 fleet to supplement capacity? Personally, I'd prefer the whole fleet be...
www.railforums.co.uk
YorksLad12
Established Member
And this, really, is the tragedy. For want of 20m to extend the platforms by, we have to wait for the 810s to go through a whole type acceptance instead of being an off-the-shelf 80x.
Good to see them finally getting some mileage under their wheels though.
Agreed, and thanks.Friendly place in speculative for debates around the merits of the 810s!
Ideally we'd like to keep this to just updates and some discussion around bringing the trains into service, rather than about the merits of the trains once they are in service. Hopefully that makes sense!
Class 810 - The Right Fit For EMR?
I've seen a lot of debate in the main Class 810 introduction thread, so creating this as a friendly space for debate around the merits of the 810 including but not limited to... -Seats -Capacity -Possibility of keeping 222 fleet to supplement capacity? Personally, I'd prefer the whole fleet be...
Indeed, EMR has some tatty trains for sure, an old core fleet and some hand me downs. Contrast that with TPE, but EMR's reliability record is a lot better.
I choose EMR based on that, but it would be lovely when their new trains eventually enter service.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
For my day trips to London i got into the habit or deliberately booking trips carried out by 180's. For two reasons, they were nice to ride on and - with the woeful reliability - i could claim delay/replay and get a really cheap trip to London1
Last edited:
I think yiur defintion of a tragedy is rather different to mine.
FirstclassHST
Member
Guys does anyone know the introduction dates of these trains?
Trainbike46
Established Member
The suggestion upthread is the first ones at the end of this year or the beginning of next year, and the full fleet by the end of 2025. None of that is official though
An alternative view could be that the 80x's should have been designed taking into account the wider network - which had standardised on 10x23m carriages or 12x20m carriages (hence St Pancras getting 240m platforms) - rather than just the initial routes they were purchased for.
First one on the network for testing - April, for first in service, ‘2025’, for all in service end of 2025. Test unit may be based at Kettering in the engineering siding, could change though. This could all move of course!
The latest edition of ‘Todays Railways’ has an interview with EMR Fleet Director.
He states:-
T1 - Old Dalby testing
T2 - Two cars sent to Pistoia, Italy for climate chamber testing.
T3, T4, T5 complete at Aycliffe and in test.
T6-T11 in assembly
T13 - in paint
T16 - at weld stage
No mention of T12.
First production units expected to be delivered in Quarter 2 of 2024 with final delivery Q2 of 2025.
Service introduction early 2025 with all in service December 2025.
He states:-
T1 - Old Dalby testing
T2 - Two cars sent to Pistoia, Italy for climate chamber testing.
T3, T4, T5 complete at Aycliffe and in test.
T6-T11 in assembly
T13 - in paint
T16 - at weld stage
No mention of T12.
First production units expected to be delivered in Quarter 2 of 2024 with final delivery Q2 of 2025.
Service introduction early 2025 with all in service December 2025.
Thanks for the update!