Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[Dave1987]

There was / is no room for 3 an hour all day anyway from Ipswich, once beynd Diss, the signal spacing can handle 2 an hour easily, but when they shove an ECS or the N. Walsham tanks, it can get very tight !

A lot of those issues surrounded the poor braking and acceleration capabilities of the old hauled sets. With the vastly superior acceleration and braking of the 755's, 745's, and of the 720's the capacity north of Ipswich should be increased. Whether the passenger numbers north of Ipswich post the Covid crisis justify 3tph is another question entirely!

 

[Bald Rick]

A lot of those issues surrounded the poor braking and acceleration capabilities of the old hauled sets. With the vastly superior acceleration and braking of the 755's, 745's, and of the 720's the capacity north of Ipswich should be increased. Whether the passenger numbers north of Ipswich post the Covid crisis justify 3tph is another question entirely!

Braking is the same, in theory - or at least it is in so far as the signalling is concerned.

Acceleration is a different matter, but the theoretical change in technical headway will be unlikely to be enough to make a difference in capacity.

 

[306024]

In timetabling terms capacity is determined by your slowest moving trains, hence the North Walsham tanks being a constraint. Ipswich to Haughley Jn is difficult to plan because the trains all then encounter single lines at Trowse, Newmarket and Soham, and at Haughley Jn itself for services via Bury. And there is a big difference in performance of a freight service compared to a Stadler unit.

 

[LAX54]

A lot of those issues surrounded the poor braking and acceleration capabilities of the old hauled sets. With the vastly superior acceleration and braking of the 755's, 745's, and of the 720's the capacity north of Ipswich should be increased. Whether the passenger numbers north of Ipswich post the Covid crisis justify 3tph is another question entirely!

And do not forget to get a green on the Down at Palgrave, the train in advance has to be clear of Gissing AHB's, due to signal spacing CO429, 431 and 439 are approach controlled until train ahead clear clear of overlap on CO443.

 

[LAX54]

In timetabling terms capacity is determined by your slowest moving trains, hence the North Walsham tanks being a constraint. Ipswich to Haughley Jn is difficult to plan because the trains all then encounter single lines at Trowse, Newmarket and Soham, and at Haughley Jn itself for services via Bury. And there is a big difference in performance of a freight service compared to a Stadler unit.

and there are a fair few freights now, twixt Ipswich and Haughley, and more planned, plus of course freights come to a virtual stop at Haughley

 

[dk1]

And do not forget to get a green on the Down at Palgrave, the train in advance has to be clear of Gissing AHB's, due to signal spacing CO429, 431 and 439 are approach controlled until train ahead clear clear of overlap on CO443.

That is so annoying when it's your last bit and you have to cautiously crawl up to them. Far too restrictive signalling

 

[Railperf]

That is so annoying when it's your last bit and you have to cautiously crawl up to them. Far too restrictive signalling

Far too often we have seen the Norwich in 90 losing time between Ipswich and Norwich as a result of all of those issues - including conflicts at Haughley due to late running freight - lets not forget the ridiculous 50 TSR at Gypsy Lane which should have been resolved by now, but the crossing remains open and unmodified!

 

[306024]

And do not forget to get a green on the Down at Palgrave, the train in advance has to be clear of Gissing AHB's, due to signal spacing CO429, 431 and 439 are approach controlled until train ahead clear clear of overlap on CO443.

Good point, very relevant as Palgrave to Gissing is just over 4.5 miles but with Diss station plonked inbetween. The superior acceleration of a Stadler unit calling at Diss will help a little, but that still affects the headway for a following train to get a green at Palgrave. Are the planners aware?

 

[LAX54]

Good point, very relevant as Palgrave to Gissing is just over 4.5 miles but with Diss station plonked inbetween. The superior acceleration of a Stadler unit calling at Diss will help a little, but that still affects the headway for a following train to get a green at Palgrave. Are the planners aware?

Would not have thought so ....they do not realise that when an intermodal train leaves Ipswich Yard, if it has to wait at CO304 in the Middle Road (or 308/306), the rear of the train will still be in the yard,

 

[LAX54]

That is so annoying when it's your last bit and you have to cautiously crawl up to them. Far too restrictive signalling

Then all of a sudden as you approach CO429, they all suddenly go 'Green' !

 

[LAX54]

That is so annoying when it's your last bit and you have to cautiously crawl up to them. Far too restrictive signalling

Of course back in the resig of the 80's, all they did really was replace the boxes with colour lights if roughly the same places, just controlled from Colchester, imagine if BR had gone ahead and made it a single line ?

 

[Railperf]

Oh yes. They are like rockets and unfortunately still on class 90/DVT timings. I have spent as much as 19 minutes just sitting at stations on a standard journey on the GEML. No need for line speed either much of the time.

It wasn't uncommon to sit around at stations when a Class 90 hauled/propelled train was being driven by a press-on driver The timings are pretty slack as it is.

The difference now, is that the Stadlers gain anywhere between half a minute to a minutes on the schedule due to the better acceleration - and from then on -it really depends on the road ahead and what mood the driver is in. We are seeing plenty of 745 drivers happy to coast along at lower speeds and dissipate time with slow and easy station approaches , as they be running a couple of minutes early in no time at all.

In dry conditions with a good loco and no wheelslip, the 90's are not hugely slower. But some of the station starts with adverse gradients really show up the performance difference between the new and old.

Of course - what aids good acceleration on the 745's - aside from a few extra motored axles and higher power to weight ratio - is their almost instant brake release - where the mk3 sets could suffer from slow brake release - hindering power application.

 

[dk1]

Then all of a sudden as you approach CO429, they all suddenly go 'Green' !

In reverse ping, ping, ping. What gets me is how far back the first peg comes off with the feather for going over the 15mph crossover onto the up.

 

[dk1]

It wasn't uncommon to sit around at stations when a Class 90 hauled/propelled train was being driven by a press-on driver The timings are pretty slack as it is.

The difference now, is that the Stadlers gain anywhere between half a minute to a minutes on the schedule due to the better acceleration - and from then on -it really depends on the road ahead and what mood the driver is in. We are seeing plenty of 745 drivers happy to coast along at lower speeds and dissipate time with slow and easy station approaches , as they be running a couple of minutes early in no time at all.

In dry conditions with a good loco and no wheelslip, the 90's are not hugely slower. But some of the station starts with adverse gradients really show up the performance difference between the new and old.

Of course - what aids good acceleration on the 745's - aside from a few extra motored axles and higher power to weight ratio - is their almost instant brake release - where the mk3 sets could suffer from slow brake release - hindering power application.

It's very tedious sitting at stations at the moment so many dont bother with line speed and the driver advisory tablet app is advising those that use it to run at a reduced speed to save energy.

 

[LAX54]

In reverse ping, ping, ping. What gets me is how far back the first peg comes off with the feather for going over the 15mph crossover onto the up.

Maybe quicker to swing you over, then back again if not stopping at Diss ! LOL

 

[Fuzzytop]

There have been a few mentions of the Stansted Express units (745/1s?) not having tables... is that no seat-back tables, no tables in the bays, or both?

 

[Dave1987]

It's very tedious sitting at stations at the moment so many dont bother with line speed and the driver advisory tablet app is advising those that use it to run at a reduced speed to save energy.

GE timings have been like that for a while. Lots of GE services sit waiting time at Witham and Shenfield for few minutes. Before the 745's came along it was regularly used to make up time when the GE service was routinely delayed by the hauled sets. With the 745's things are different. Now they have joined the club of waiting time at stations. With the performance on these new trains ALL services on GEML will hopefully get reduced journey times.

 

[dk1]

GE timings have been like that for a while. Lots of GE services sit waiting time at Witham and Shenfield for few minutes. Before the 745's came along it was regularly used to make up time when the GE service was routinely delayed by the hauled sets. With the 745's things are different. Now they have joined the club of waiting time at stations. With the performance on these new trains ALL services on GEML will hopefully get reduced journey times.

You'd like to think so but I can't see anything changing before December 2021.

 

[samuelmorris]

No reason to go through the upheaval of a timing change with 321s and 317s still around - I'm quite happy for them to wait until the new fleet is complete, and that's not likely to be until December 2021 at the earliest.

 

[dk1]

There have been a few mentions of the Stansted Express units (745/1s?) not having tables... is that no seat-back tables, no tables in the bays, or both?

None from what I recall, definitely no full tables. It's quite a shocker when you first get on one. I see the need for luggage space but it's a bit ridiculous on these. At least the 365s had the small V shaped tables under the windows so somewhere to stand a coffee.

 

[Dave1987]

No reason to go through the upheaval of a timing change with 321s and 317s still around - I'm quite happy for them to wait until the new fleet is complete, and that's not likely to be until December 2021 at the earliest.

indeed not. No point in doing any timetable changes until there is a uniform fleet in place. But when the new fleet is eventually in place the legacy timings are going to be extremely leisurely. I have been amazed at just how early some 745’s have been arriving at stations. The old hauled set would be routinely 2-4 minutes late or barely on time. The 745’s are arriving a good 2-3 minutes early. I’ve heard one example of a 745 leaving Liv St 10 minutes late and being RT by Ipswich!

 

[Railperf]

There have been a few mentions of the Stansted Express units (745/1s?) not having tables... is that no seat-back tables, no tables in the bays, or both?

none whatsoever.

 

[dk1]

indeed not. No point in doing any timetable changes until there is a uniform fleet in place. But when the new fleet is eventually in place the legacy timings are going to be extremely leisurely. I have been amazed at just how early some 745’s have been arriving at stations. The old hauled set would be routinely 2-4 minutes late or barely on time. The 745’s are arriving a good 2-3 minutes early. I’ve heard one example of a 745 leaving Liv St 10 minutes late and being RT by Ipswich!

Waiting times on average for me are Stratford 2min, Chelmsford 5min, Colchester 5min, Manningtree 2min then arriving Ipswich around xx:39 4min early so it just goes to show how much slack we now have so making up time is a doddle. Even Gypsy Lanes long time 50 TSR doesn't stop a 1min early arrival into Stowmarket.

 

[Railperf]

Waiting times on average for me are Stratford 2min, Chelmsford 5min, Colchester 5min, Manningtree 2min then arriving Ipswich around xx:39 4min early so it just goes to show how much slack we now have so making up time is a doddle. Even Gypsy Lanes long time 50 TSR doesn't stop a 1min early arrival into Stowmarket.

Has anyone hit a full 100mph yet from the 50mph TSR before braking for Stowmarket stop? I think 95mph is the fastest i have seen on a 755/3. Even then it seemed a quite easy station stop.

 

[Railperf]

Waiting times on average for me are Stratford 2min, Chelmsford 5min, Colchester 5min, Manningtree 2min then arriving Ipswich around xx:39 4min early so it just goes to show how much slack we now have so making up time is a doddle. Even Gypsy Lanes long time 50 TSR doesn't stop a 1min early arrival into Stowmarket.

it's not unusual to arrive in Norwich 2 to 3 early either!

 

[dk1]

it's not unusual to arrive in Norwich 2 to 3 early either!

And the rest It cant be far off a ton but then looking out for the 90 PSR at the down loop oh & of course getting hold of it for the station stop. Will have a look later.

 

[Dave1987]

Waiting times on average for me are Stratford 2min, Chelmsford 5min, Colchester 5min, Manningtree 2min then arriving Ipswich around xx:39 4min early so it just goes to show how much slack we now have so making up time is a doddle. Even Gypsy Lanes long time 50 TSR doesn't stop a 1min early arrival into Stowmarket.

5 mins!! bloody hell. I can't say that GE services are waiting that long at Witham and Shenfield regularly. Jeeeezz that just shows how much slack there is in the timetable for the old (and knackered) legacy stock.

 

[Railperf]

And the rest It cant be far off a ton but then looking out for the 90 PSR at the down loop oh & of course getting hold of it for the station stop. Will have a look later.

That's almost 20 mins slack!!

 

[dk1]

That's almost 20 mins slack!!

A spent 19 dull minutes just dwelling at stations the other Sunday. Its soul destroying.

 

[RailWonderer]

A spent 19 dull minutes just dwelling at stations the other Sunday. Its soul destroying.

Soon it will seem funny how it was so tough to achieve Norwich in 90 on most days, having to loop trains to do it, and even then, contending with red signals and delayed freight and rurals didn’t help.
Post recast, the faster IC could be Norwich in 90 every hour with normal calling patterns with the 745 acceleration and braking ability.

On another note, what will the line speed be when Gipsy Lane is closed?