Class 710 LO

[APT618S]

Realtime Trains | 5Q58 1321 Worksop Up Receptions to Derby Litchurch Lane | 31/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q58 1321 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Derby Litchurch Lane on 31/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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710270 at Derby.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Realtime Trains | 5Q58 1321 Worksop Up Receptions to Derby Litchurch Lane | 31/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q58 1321 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Derby Litchurch Lane on 31/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

710270 at Derby.

Thanks for that. I hope that means 710374 is going to London from Derby soon.

 

[3973EXL]

Reported elsewhere, 710374 seen on the test track at Litchurch Lane today.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Reported elsewhere, 710374 seen on the test track at Litchurch Lane today.

Is that just a short bit of OHLE / 3rd rail for one of the sidings ?. Fingers crossed. If 710374 comes to London soon I suspect that means 710375 is likely to venture out of Ilford soon.

 

[wickham]

There has been mention on this site regarding not being able to locate certain London Overground units and I think it is not generally known that LOR have three berthing sidings deep in Wembley Yard, known as Wembley C sidings. There appears to be capacity there for about 12 units (a mix of 4 and 5 car 378/710s) but the sidings can only be accessed via the AC lines, there is no DC connection. The actual location is adjacent to Wembley Operations Centre and ASC, accessed via a private road just down the main road from Stonebridge Park station. As far as I can tell, the location can not be viewed from outside railway property, can not be seen from the DC lines and usually can not be seen from the AC lines due to the presence of wagons and trains stabled in front. Hope this is useful information.
MK

 

[Peter Sarf]

There has been mention on this site regarding not being able to locate certain London Overground units and I think it is not generally known that LOR have three berthing sidings deep in Wembley Yard, known as Wembley C sidings. There appears to be capacity there for about 12 units (a mix of 4 and 5 car 378/710s) but the sidings can only be accessed via the AC lines, there is no DC connection. The actual location is adjacent to Wembley Operations Centre and ASC, accessed via a private road just down the main road from Stonebridge Park station. As far as I can tell, the location can not be viewed from outside railway property, can not be seen from the DC lines and usually can not be seen from the AC lines due to the presence of wagons and trains stabled in front. Hope this is useful information.
MK

My bold. I had wondered where the "newer" sidings were. Is the private road you refer to Pendolino Way, just off Blackmore Drive that also leads to the Royal Mail centre. But instead of heading over the North Circular road to the Royal Mail Cente is it to the NW of the North Circular Road ?.

 

[Sphun20]

There has been mention on this site regarding not being able to locate certain London Overground units and I think it is not generally known that LOR have three berthing sidings deep in Wembley Yard, known as Wembley C sidings. There appears to be capacity there for about 12 units (a mix of 4 and 5 car 378/710s) but the sidings can only be accessed via the AC lines, there is no DC connection. The actual location is adjacent to Wembley Operations Centre and ASC, accessed via a private road just down the main road from Stonebridge Park station. As far as I can tell, the location can not be viewed from outside railway property, can not be seen from the DC lines and usually can not be seen from the AC lines due to the presence of wagons and trains stabled in front. Hope this is useful information.
MK

710's are generally not stabled here at all. There are stop boards for them but I haven't seen any been stabled there for a long time. Mostly 378's.

 

[greatkingrat]

Generally every unit that stables at Wembley overnight will be out in service the next day, so there is nothing to see there that can't be seen elsewhere.

 

[87015]

379 viewed on DC today

 

[Kite159]

379 was in service on Sunday on the DC line, here it was at Euston at 16;20.

 

[Electrojuniper]

update to 710's: 710375 heading to Willesden next week and out the following week on test, and 374 heading south mid may to ilford. 270 to remain in derby

 

[800001]

update to 710's: 710375 heading to Willesden next week and out the following week on test, and 374 heading south mid may to ilford. 270 to remain in derby

710375 went to Ilford on 18th January, did it return back to derby?

 

[Peter Sarf]

710375 went to Ilford on 18th January, did it return back to derby?

I read it as 710375 finally leaving Ilford for Willesden after being at Ilford (since 18/01/2023).

So 375 has spent three months at Ilford. If 374 arrives mid May at Ilford then that is four months elapsed so if it takes the same time then 270 wont be getting to Ilford until mid September and wont get to Willesden until December. Yawn.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 May 2023 ==


EDIT (new post below merged) :-

I spent some time at Willesden Junction last night so I can report on the current "pattern" with 710s.

Watford-Euston uses 8 units and on Bank Holiday Monday 01/0502023 is was
3 * 710/3 (376, 378 & 379)
4 * 710/2 (256, 258, 261 & 266)
1 * 378 (218)
At Willesden Junction that takes one hour and 20 minutes to see a the first repeat from Watford Junction, Euston is 3 workings sooner. They are 15 minute frequency each way so bearable.
This was the same mixture of units as on Wednesday 11/01/2023 btw, but warmer !.
The above might be useful for some.

Willesden depot seemed to house 3* 378 one inside two outside, nothing by the DC lines for a change.

The only other 710/3 around was 710377 parked at Euston on Platform 10 !.

Yet to see 710375 which might be leaving Ilford for Willesden this week. I had vaguely clutched at the straw of a Bank Holiday being a nice quiet day for a move !. Only positive sign (vague hope) was that the sidings at Willesden Depot by the DC lines were empty - these have housed 710379 (the last one to drag its heels slowly into service) and c2c 720/6s. Remember TfL are apparently not in a great hurry for these last few/extra 710s (375 at Ilford, 374 at Derby & 270 at Worksop ?). That is until the increase in frequency on the ELR demands six(?) extra 378s from the NLL.

 

[3973EXL]

update to 710's: 710375 heading to Willesden next week and out the following week on test, and 374 heading south mid may to ilford. 270 to remain in derby

710375?

Realtime Trains | 5L53 1849 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ilford E.M.U.D. | 04/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5L53 1849 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ilford E.M.U.D. on 04/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q53 0150 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Willesden T.M.D | 05/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q53 0150 departure from Ilford E.M.U.D. to Willesden T.M.D on 05/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 5M57 0338 Willesden T.M.D to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 05/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M57 0338 departure from Willesden T.M.D to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 05/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peter Sarf]

710375?

Realtime Trains | 5L53 1849 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ilford E.M.U.D. | 04/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5L53 1849 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ilford E.M.U.D. on 04/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q53 0150 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Willesden T.M.D | 05/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q53 0150 departure from Ilford E.M.U.D. to Willesden T.M.D on 05/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5M57 0338 Willesden T.M.D to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) | 05/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M57 0338 departure from Willesden T.M.D to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) on 05/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Strange circular movement !.

If I have the logic right then maybe 710374 is coming from Derby to Ilford and then 710375 is then moving from Ilford (where I believe it has been for months) to Willesden then something back to Derby from Willesden. Maybe another 710 going to Derby as 710270 has gone back to Derby.

On later analysing the RTT detailed :-
Derby to Ilford is 75 mph, Empty coaching stock.
Ilford to Willesden is 35 mph, Empty non passenger stock, Trailing load 1760 tonnes.
Willesden to Derby is 75 mph, Empty coaching stock.

So is that a Diesel locomotive coming from Derby to Ilford to take 710375 to Willesden then loco back to Derby ?. But surely Ilford to Willesden is all under the wires and 710375 was supposed to be commissioned at Ilford so why can it not do it on its own ?.

EDIT at 09:30 on 05/05/2023.
5L53 Was 37510 & 37884 with two barrier coaches (no unit). Thanks to @3973EXL @55002 @FrodshamJnct.
5Q53 Being a "Q" will be a unit move. Thanks to @3973EXL for reminding me what "Q" means.
5M57 Hoping this was minus a unit.
Will update with more info as and when.

 

[Electrojuniper]

yes this is correct - 375 being hauled from ilford to Willesden.

374 16th May currently

 

[Peter Sarf]

yes this is correct - 375 being hauled from ilford to Willesden.

374 16th May currently

Thanks for putting me out of my misery. I really ought to go to Willesden before 710375 gets tucked inside for an eternity.

---

Just to recap for those who are interested :-

710270 at Derby after a long spell in London.
710374 at Derby and due 16/05/2023 to Ilford.
710375 at Willesden (as of 05/05/2023) and probably in service in mid June-ish ?.
710379 at Willesden and in service at last.

Note the 710/3s are used on the Watford Junction to Euston services and seems to be 3x710/3, 4x710/2 and 1x378 every time I visit Willesden Junction low level. Other 710/2s are on the Gospel Oak - Barking Line and about two 710/2s in use with the 710/1s out of Liverpool Street and the Romford-Upminster shuttle. Some (sporadic ?) testing of 710s on the North London Line which is where the 710/3s are meant to end up.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How many /2 are diagrammed in service per day, does anyone know?

 

[Peter Sarf]

How many /2 are diagrammed in service per day, does anyone know?

I don't know BUT TfL seem to rely on two or three 710/2s working TfL services out of Liverpool Street with the 710/1s. I thought this was not supposed to happen. That leads me to believe TfL will not have enough 710(/3)s to replace the six(?) 378s on the NLL that are heading to the ELL. Note TfL seem to be regularly using 3 of the 710/3s already on Wat-Eus and I guess they should be 710/2s ?.

 

[JonathanH]

I don't know BUT TfL seem to rely on two or three 710/2s working TfL services out of Liverpool Street with the 710/1s. I thought this was not supposed to happen.

I'm not so sure about it not being supposed to happen. The original order for 30 710/1s didn't include Romford to Upminster, but is often run by one. Therefore, one 710/2 is nominally for that route, so at least one 710/2 should usually be working from Liverpool Street.

Also, with 710/3s on the Watford DC, there are spare 710/2s to reduce the requirement for 710/1s.

 

[Electrojuniper]

375 is due out under own power around 12/5 along wcml sand into service around end of June ish.

re numbers - due to covid - service patterns are being flexed and with 710 mod programs going on there are different formations around LO network occurring

plans are for /3's to NLR and /2's to dc.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not so sure about it not being supposed to happen. The original order for 30 710/1s didn't include Romford to Upminster, but is often run by one. Therefore, one 710/2 is nominally for that route, so at least one 710/2 should usually be working from Liverpool Street.

Also, with 710/3s on the Watford DC, there are spare 710/2s to reduce the requirement for 710/1s.

True and we will not know how tight / unexpected 710/2 use is until the East London Line takes the (6?) 378s from the North London Line.

 

[Electrojuniper]

I'm not so sure about it not being supposed to happen. The original order for 30 710/1s didn't include Romford to Upminster, but is often run by one. Therefore, one 710/2 is nominally for that route, so at least one 710/2 should usually be working from Liverpool Street.

Also, with 710/3s on the Watford DC, there are spare 710/2s to reduce the requirement for 710/1s.

currently a couple of 710/2 cover the original WA hire ins - which used to be services operating as Class 317's from abellio and used by LO in service for a proportion of the journey.

 

[Peter Sarf]

375 is due out under own power around 12/5 along wcml sand into service around end of June ish.

re numbers - due to covid - service patterns are being flexed and with 710 mod programs going on there are different formations around LO network occurring

plans are for /3's to NLR and /2's to dc.

Thanks for that, a while to wait then.

Is the visit of 710270 to Derby part of the modification program ?.

I assume not forgetting 710/2s already on Gospel Oak - Barking also ?.

 

[Electrojuniper]

all I can say is 270 and 374 will continue a protracted entry into service, Mod programs are occurring at Ilford and Willesden

 

[JonathanH]

currently a couple of 710/2 cover the original WA hire ins - which used to be services operating as Class 317's from abellio and used by LO in service for a proportion of the journey.

Surely that isn't a long term thing though? Isn't the 710/1 fleet right sized for the LO Liverpool Street services? It isn't as if they are going to hire in 720s in the future. What hired in units used to do can't be relevant now?

 

[Electrojuniper]

/2's will continue on the Gospel Oak to Barking.

12 x 710/2's require on the DC/NLR/GOB currently

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2023 ==

Surely that isn't a long term thing though? Isn't the 710/1 fleet right sized for the LO Liverpool Street services? It isn't as if they are going to hire in 720s in the future. What hired in units used to do can't be relevant now?

The point I made is LO continue to operate the same diagrams as per those which operated as part of the original Class 317 hire ins and have been backfilled by the Class 710 units. The units will continue until a timetable recast - expected 2025. no intent to hire any other units from other operators in.

 

[Peter Sarf]

/2's will continue on the Gospel Oak to Barking.

12 x 710/2's require on the DC/NLR/GOB currently

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2023 ==


The point I made is LO continue to operate the same diagrams as per those which operated as part of the original Class 317 hire ins and have been backfilled by the Class 710 units. The units will continue until a timetable recast - expected 2025. no intent to hire any other units from other operators in.

My bold. Only 12 needed out of 18 ?. Is that because of the 3 710/3s and 1 378 currently on the DC ?. I know the DC could swallow up 8 units.

 

[JonathanH]

The point I made is LO continue to operate the same diagrams as per those which operated as part of the original Class 317 hire ins and have been backfilled by the Class 710 units. The units will continue until a timetable recast - expected 2025. no intent to hire any other units from other operators in.

Right, so I think you are saying that the fleet of 30 710/1s is effectively not enough to run the current West Anglia timetable because the diagrams are slightly inefficient at peak times, but will be if the timetable is recast in 2025?

 

[Peter Sarf]

At 19:00 on Sunday 07.05.2023 new arrival 710375 was visible at Willesden Depot. It was inside the extended 2 road shed in the road farthest from the AC main lines. Number visible from the footbridge over the WCML. That is relying on binoculars and shed doors being open of course !. The orange end was noticeably brighter than that of 710376 which was 2 roads further away sticking out of the shorter shed.