Class 710 LO

[bussnapperwm]

No as WMT class 153’s are due to transfer to EMT in December 2018

Easy solution.

Reduce the 6 car 172 Snow Hill workings to 5 car and the 4 car workings to 3 car.

Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services.

The released 170s could then go on Chase/Shrewsbury journeys with the 150s going to do Bedford services as a temporary measure.

That would then release the remaining 153s

 

[plcd1]

Hang on a minute — there are plenty of spare 345s, under TfL's control, and both trains are Aventras so driver training wouldn't be wasted...

They have the DOO cameras too, so the only remaining question is — just how short can you form a 345 and still have it functional?

I note the smiley. The main issue is that NOTHING is allowed to impact on Crossrail so no one at TfL is going to come up with an idea that involves faffing around with the 345 fleet. That fleet is hardly reliable and shortening units to a length not envisaged for this fleet would probably require software changes using the self same resources that are already stretched to breaking point in debugging the normal length 345s and trying to get the 710s to an operable state. Others have mentioned money, contracts, logistics etc. In short it's a "NO".

 

[Agent_Squash]

Easy solution.

Reduce the 6 car 172 Snow Hill workings to 5 car and the 4 car workings to 3 car.

Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services.

The released 170s could then go on Chase/Shrewsbury journeys with the 150s going to do Bedford services as a temporary measure.

That would then release the remaining 153s

Why should the people of the Midlands have to suffer because of Bombardier's inability to deliver to TfL?

 

[HLE]

Easy solution.

Reduce the 6 car 172 Snow Hill workings to 5 car and the 4 car workings to 3 car.

Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services.

The released 170s could then go on Chase/Shrewsbury journeys with the 150s going to do Bedford services as a temporary measure.

That would then release the remaining 153s

Except it isn’t. All Coventry crew that sign Nuneaton/Leamington branches would need training up on 170’s....for a month or two max maybe?

Non starter.

 

[HLE]

172002 is one that has gone from Lo, should be at Ilford depot (bombardier) to have toilet fitted before going to west midlands.

It’s at Tyseley, apparently. From the rumours up here anyway!

 

[bussnapperwm]

Except it isn’t. All Coventry crew that sign Nuneaton/Leamington branches would need training up on 170’s....for a month or two max maybe?

Non starter.

If you read my post, you'll see I said "Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services."

Those two units being the two remaining 172s that are left out of snow hill duties and don't replace the 170s on Hereford.

Why should the people of the Midlands have to suffer because of Bombardier's inability to deliver to TfL?

Because we're used to being screwed over by the combined authority when it comes to public transport.

See the constant delays/budget overruns to the metro, NXs bus reviews, LM and their constant problem of staff in the early portion of their franchise, the chase line electric overrun and the fact we are neither in the north or LSE areas.

 

[BlyRF]

Anyway, getting back to the focus of the Class 710 Delivery, have there been any more deliveries or testing of the units of late?

 

[theking]

Hang on a minute — there are plenty of spare 345s, under TfL's control, and both trains are Aventras so driver training wouldn't be wasted...

They have the DOO cameras too, so the only remaining question is — just how short can you form a 345 and still have it functional?

345's don't have doo cameras.

And if they were reliable they would be up and down Lst to Shenfield rather than sitting in Ilford depot.

Pipe dream any other stock going on the goblin.

If the 172's go it will be 710's or buses whether user groups or the like are vocal doesn't mean two hoots.

 

[dp21]

Anyway, getting back to the focus of the Class 710 Delivery, have there been any more deliveries or testing of the units of late?

Ah here's one I can answer.

In short, no.

The Derby blockade means nothing can really come or go from the site.

 

[Bikeman78]

No as WMT class 153’s are due to transfer to EMT in December 2018

How many 153s? All of them? The electrification of Walsall to Rugeley will free up some 153s and 170s.

 

[BlyRF]

Ah here's one I can answer.

In short, no.

The Derby blockade means nothing can really come or go from the site.

It’s true, there is a massive resignalling work going on till October which brings to light TFL’s so called launch date.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...ovement-programme/derby-resignalling-project/

To have this line block delay plus software rectification, delivery, acceptance by NR, ORR?, line testing and driver training. It’s really a depressing state of affaires.

 

[plcd1]

Ah here's one I can answer.

In short, no.

The Derby blockade means nothing can really come or go from the site.

Ah that's one issue I hadn't thought of. That might explain the recent dash to move 6 710s to Willesden (an earlier post in this thread has the numbers). Also explains why Old Oak Common has a decent number of 345s in it.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

If they can't come by rail and are needed (assuming they've been cleared), then presumably they'll just have to come by road?

 

[Cosmicismsx]

Ah here's one I can answer.

In short, no.

The Derby blockade means nothing can really come or go from the site.

This is not entirely true, there are diversionary routes once the line into the Works is open.

 

[AlanFry1]

Can they not be transported by road?

 

[Mikey C]

The Derby blockage is a good excuse

"We have all the trains you want, and the software works perfectly. Sadly we can't deliver them yet..."

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Easy solution.

Reduce the 6 car 172 Snow Hill workings to 5 car and the 4 car workings to 3 car.

Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services.

The released 170s could then go on Chase/Shrewsbury journeys with the 150s going to do Bedford services as a temporary measure.

That would then release the remaining 153s

Crazy idea.

 

[hwl]

Can they not be transported by road?

And how many low loaders?

Bombardier Derby is on its fortnight summer shut down isn't it? So an ideal time to not have the rail access as no extra units will be completed so no pressure added to get more out...

 

[HLE]

If you read my post, you'll see I said "Use all but two 172s that have been taken out of the equation on Snow Hill and use them on the Birmingham to Hereford via Bromsgrove, releasing a couple of 170s. The remaining two use on Bedworth/Kenilworth services."

Those two units being the two remaining 172s that are left out of snow hill duties and don't replace the 170s on Hereford.



Because we're used to being screwed over by the combined authority when it comes to public transport.

See the constant delays/budget overruns to the metro, NXs bus reviews, LM and their constant problem of staff in the early portion of their franchise, the chase line electric overrun and the fact we are neither in the north or LSE areas.

Still a non starter. You’d then have to send drivers on a day course once the LO units arrive as the cab layout is different.
May only be a day per man but that’s a lot of cover to find in what would be a short space of time

 

[HLE]

How many 153s? All of them? The electrification of Walsall to Rugeley will free up some 153s and 170s.

Yep. All 8 to EMT. It’s gone quiet on that front though recently

 

[swt_passenger]

And how many low loaders?

Bombardier Derby is on its fortnight summer shut down isn't it? So an ideal time to not have the rail access as no extra units will be completed so no pressure added to get more out...

Depends if it’s a production line shutdown or the entire site is shutdown. We don’t really know do we? In any case there are reported (post #532) to have been far more 710s completed, and already stored on site that could be delivered.

 

[Skymonster]

I drove round the outside of the site early in the week. There are still workers present, even if some are on a fortnight summer leave. There are 710 cars all over the site, mainly singles rather than formed into full units. Hardly any of them have cabside or individual carriage numbers on them and only 710258 and 710260 were obviously identifiable, A cursory look suggests to me there must be enough for getting on for 15-20 units outside the works at the moment.

 

[BlyRF]

Depends if it’s a production line shutdown or the entire site is shutdown. We don’t really know do we? In any case there are reported (post #532) to have been far more 710s completed, and already stored on site that could be delivered.

There's actually reported to be quite a lot of units finished production and ready to be rolled out (roughly 26 full trains completed so far). Just a matter of getting a steady flow of them out to the relative depots through a reliable diversionary route or road transport while the derby works are in place.

The only delay issue still remains is whenever they managed to patch up the TCMS software issue and planning for driver testing along with general acceptance by NR and ORR.

 

[Skymonster]

In addition to my comment at reply 563 above, there's obviously still testing going on at Bombardier - as I passed this afternoon one of the 710s was running up and down the electrified test track inside the works.

 

[Goldfish62]

Far too expensive for the time.

Yes, that was a main issue.

 

[BlyRF]

Is there been anymore recent news on the Software testing of this train or any more deliveries been brought to the depot despite the NR works at Derby?

 

[Class 466]

Hang on a minute — there are plenty of spare 345s, under TfL's control, and both trains are Aventras so driver training wouldn't be wasted...

They have the DOO cameras too, so the only remaining question is — just how short can you form a 345 and still have it functional?

345s don't have DOO Cameras - part of the delay in 710s is writing software for the bodyside cameras.

 

[rebmcr]

345s don't have DOO Cameras - part of the delay in 710s is writing software for the bodyside cameras.

Yeah, my memory betrayed me. I now remember that 345s use the LU-style leaky feeder system.

 

[Fincra5]

Yeah, my memory betrayed me. I now remember that 345s use the LU-style leaky feeder system.

They do yes, due to Platfrom Edge doors.. 710s use generic bodyside ears.

 

[dmncf]

Yesterday the two units were in an electrified part of Willesden Junction Depot adjacent to the WCML.

20180814_181907

• dmncf
• 15 Aug 2018
• 1

Two Class 710 units at Willesden Junction Depot on 14 August 2018