Class 710 LO

[samuelmorris]

I'm not really sure why the part-transverse model from the 345s wasn't used. Presumably the assumption is that journey times will never be long enough?

 

[AlanFry1]

I'm not really sure why the part-transverse model from the 345s wasn't used. Presumably the assumption is that journey times will never be long enough?

A quick answer to overcrowding I presume before a hike in trains per hour.

 

[87015]

I'm not really sure why the part-transverse model from the 345s wasn't used. Presumably the assumption is that journey times will never be long enough?

As before, there is a near doubling of capacity at White Hart Lane required and little to no option of running additional services due to the infrastructure/resource/fleet...

 

[AlanFry1]

As before, there is a near doubling of capacity at White Hart Lane required and little to no option of running additional services due to the infrastructure/resource/fleet...

I doubt the decision to make units longitudinal is because of the ground. Makes no sense with 345 being tranverse with Stratford (Home to West Ham), Reading (Home to Reading FC), Docklands and City meaning the 345s will undoubtedly be busier than 710s

 

[Class 170101]

A quick answer to overcrowding I presume before a hike in trains per hour.

I don't think they have ordered enough Class 710s for that. Unless there has been a follow on order I think its a one for one replacement of the existing fleet.

 

[moogal]

On the 378's you get 2 standing inbetween at least when it's really busy you get 3

Same on the S Stock - it makes a huge amount of difference compared to the more restrictive tube stock!

 

[southern442]

As before, there is a near doubling of capacity at White Hart Lane required and little to no option of running additional services due to the infrastructure/resource/fleet...

Yes but the 345 layout is still a massive reduction in seating capacity/increase in standing space compared to older units but it will still keep long distance travellers happy.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's a reduction in seating capacity but a considerable increase in standing space!

 

[jon0844]

It's a reduction in seating capacity but a considerable increase in standing space!

Which is what all new trains are about, except perhaps intercity services.

 

[southern442]

It's a reduction in seating capacity but a considerable increase in standing space!

Yes sorry, I need to edit that

 

[Wivenswold]

Which is what all new trains are about, except perhaps intercity services.

Not our Aventras, the 720s have seats just about anywhere they can fit one in.

 

[AlanFry1]

View media item 3040
Another picture of the 710.

 

[AlanFry1]

According to Twitter, updates on the GOBLIN have stalled. Will delay the progress of 710s on the GOBLIN, but what about on the Lea Valley Lines?

I hope not!

In the meantime, please find attached another photo of the 710s uploaded to Twitter.

 

[Buggleskelly]

Very smart looking. Those colours suit the Aventra extremely well unlike the bland colours being used for Crossrail and the other upcoming family classes.

 

[Class465fan]

According to Twitter, updates on the GOBLIN have stalled. Will delay the progress of 710s on the GOBLIN, but what about on the Lea Valley Lines?

I hope not!

In the meantime, please find attached another photo of the 710s uploaded to Twitter.View attachment 43112

Why's that?

 

[plcd1]

According to Twitter, updates on the GOBLIN have stalled. Will delay the progress of 710s on the GOBLIN, but what about on the Lea Valley Lines?

I hope not!

What do you mean by "updates on the GOBLIN have stalled"?

Surely we are at the stage where the results from the test runs of the 378 are being analysed and reviewed? If any changes need to be made these will need to specified, scheduled and implemented. Where are there no issues then I'd expect Network Rail will be compiling the required evidence and documentation to allow submission to ORR to allow the electrified infrastructure to be used for passenger services. Given that wasn't scheduled until March (IIRC) then we're not late.

We also know 710s are still being tested so they aren't yet clear for delivery to TfL. Given everyone has been saying "Summer" for the 710s to be used on the GOBLIN then the trains aren't "late" by that seasonal deadline. Clearly though the use of "Summer" is designed to give cover for any teething issues with the trains or training of drivers. If I was to guess I'd say the infrastructure will be signed off and ready but will be sitting there waiting for reliable trains to turn up. The problems with the 345s are not very encouraging when it comes to the 710s being a reliable option. I expect Bombardier are working their socks off to try and get the 345s "stable" to at least given a basis for the 710s to be released from the factory and start accumulating mileage and be ready for delivery to Arriva London Rail.

 

[Domh245]

According to Twitter, updates on the GOBLIN have stalled. Will delay the progress of 710s on the GOBLIN, but what about on the Lea Valley Lines?

I hope not!

I'm assuming that is based on this tweet? I think you may be reading things into it - it doesn't mention the GOBLIN other than to say that the entry into service of the 710s on it likely won't be met. As far as I can tell, the problems are with the testing of the new trains, not the GOBLIN. I would also assume that if it is the trains that are being delayed, that will affect the entire fleet meaning that the Lea Valley units will also be delayed, although it is possible that the delay will be reduced by the time that they start to come into play.

 

[MatthewRead]

I'm assuming that is based on this tweet? I think you may be reading things into it - it doesn't mention the GOBLIN other than to say that the entry into service of the 710s on it likely won't be met. As far as I can tell, the problems are with the testing of the new trains, not the GOBLIN. I would also assume that if it is the trains that are being delayed, that will affect the entire fleet meaning that the Lea Valley units will also be delayed, although it is possible that the delay will be reduced by the time that they start to come into play.

If the GOBLIN line electrification isn't completed in time they could start them on the Euston-Watford service.

 

[samuelmorris]

I would also assume that, simply based on how that tweet is written, but the extent of issues with 345s means it's almost guaranteed that the 710 testing is behind schedule, even if there were also delays to the infrastructure side of the works. Last I heard regarding the Goblin electrification tests, everything seemed to be going fine, at least when testing 378s on the route.

 

[Domh245]

If the GOBLIN line electrification isn't completed in time they could start them on the Euston-Watford service.

Probably, but the issue seems to be that the trains are delayed, not the electrification.

 

[felixthebadger]

Have the cab windows been realigned on the 710? The windows on the 345 look to me to be at an angle from the horizontal but straighter on the 710.

 

[dp21]

Have the cab windows been realigned on the 710? The windows on the 345 look to me to be at an angle from the horizontal but straighter on the 710.

It's possible. Looking at the designs for the 720s, they have a different exterior cab window design however if I remember correctly the actual shape of the window aperture remains the same.

 

[AlanFry1]

I'm assuming that is based on this tweet? I think you may be reading things into it - it doesn't mention the GOBLIN other than to say that the entry into service of the 710s on it likely won't be met. As far as I can tell, the problems are with the testing of the new trains, not the GOBLIN. I would also assume that if it is the trains that are being delayed, that will affect the entire fleet meaning that the Lea Valley units will also be delayed, although it is possible that the delay will be reduced by the time that they start to come into play.

Yep that tweet. I really do hope the units are not delayed - Maybe emergency stock could be loaned to the Lea Valley Lines if so, as stock is now over life expiry?

 

[theking]

There's a video on YouTube of one being transported by HGV.

First time it's been pictured with the lower blue valence fitted by the coupler.

Have to say it looks great so much better than the 345 unit the paint design on the 710 really does look good.

 

[AlanFry1]

There's a video on YouTube of one being transported by HGV.

First time it's been pictured with the lower blue valence fitted by the coupler.

Have to say it looks great so much better than the 345 unit the paint design on the 710 really does look good.

It'll be odd seeing 710s coupled up

 

[dp21]

It's interesting how the Aventra cab design has varied between the 345s, 710s and 720s and then different again for the 701s and the new WM fleet. Anyone know of any reasons or is it a natural design evolution?

Edit: Agreed, theking, I like it! Wonder if there will be the yellow front end argument with this one too or whether orange will be seen as acceptable?

 

[Domh245]

It's interesting how the Aventra cab design has varied between the 345s, 710s and 720s and then different again for the 701s and the new WM fleet. Anyone know of any reasons or is it a natural design evolution?

I think it'll just be design evolution. The only changes between the 345, 710, and 720 seem to be the lights (changing the surround shape to look more angular, and then moving from two to one lamps) and minor adjustments to accommodate the shape of the body (eg if the 720 is wider higher up, which explains the slightly steeper angle of the side fairings). As for the latter evolution, since seeing the WMT Aventra renders I can't help but think that the SWR Aventra may have been offered with a gangway (and then rejected) but it certainly seems to have been a stepping stone towards a front end that can accommodate a gangway.

 

[class387]

There's a video on YouTube of one being transported by HGV.

First time it's been pictured with the lower blue valence fitted by the coupler.

Have to say it looks great so much better than the 345 unit the paint design on the 710 really does look good.

This is the video for anyone who wants to see it (not mine):

I do like how that looks.

 

[dp21]

I think it'll just be design evolution. The only changes between the 345, 710, and 720 seem to be the lights (changing the surround shape to look more angular, and then moving from two to one lamps) and minor adjustments to accommodate the shape of the body (eg if the 720 is wider higher up, which explains the slightly steeper angle of the side fairings). As for the latter evolution, since seeing the WMT Aventra renders I can't help but think that the SWR Aventra may have been offered with a gangway (and then rejected) but it certainly seems to have been a stepping stone towards a front end that can accommodate a gangway.

Most likely. If the 720s have a slightly different body profile it would explain why the cab looked quite different. The noticeable thing is there's a very upward sweep on the side of the cab as supposed to a gentle sweep on the 345/710. I'm useless at attaching photos on here but for reference it's the bit just above the orange line on the 710s.

Thanks class387 for the link to the video, they do look good! I wonder why they seem to travel a lot without the horn grilles?

 

[AlexNL]

I wonder why they seem to travel a lot without the horn grilles?

Maybe they fell off?