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Class 710 LO

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plcd1

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Mikey C said:
But then surely the West Anglia lines are a bit different, they're mainly commuter lines, rather than previously underused radial routes. I doubt there's much latent demand there, such that numbers will now rocket under TfL (as opposed to steadily increasing like the other commuter routes)
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I would disagree with this slightly. The corridor from Stoke Newington to Edmonton Green is tremendously busy - it has an extremely frequent parallel bus service. For longer trips then trains will be far faster if your waiting time is low. I expect that there has been and will continue to be some modal transfer from bus to rail once people realise there is a rail line there - the famous "tube map" effect. The problem TfL have is that they can't hugely increase train frequencies and thus lower wait times. If they could do this then the modal transfer would, IMO, be rather higher.

The fact that stations are staffed and have been improved has also changed things. From my occasional observations places like Bethnal Green are vastly busier now than they used to be 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I haven't noticed massive changes on the Chingford line but I expect it is busier off peak. It was always and remains busy in the peaks as is the route via Seven Sisters.

The patronage stats, in the London Datastore, for London Overground show continued growth but unfortunately the numbers are not broken down by line / route.
 
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Mikey C

Mikey C

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plcd1 said:
I would disagree with this slightly. The corridor from Stoke Newington to Edmonton Green is tremendously busy - it has an extremely frequent parallel bus service. For longer trips then trains will be far faster if your waiting time is low. I expect that there has been and will continue to be some modal transfer from bus to rail once people realise there is a rail line there - the famous "tube map" effect. The problem TfL have is that they can't hugely increase train frequencies and thus lower wait times. If they could do this then the modal transfer would, IMO, be rather higher.

The fact that stations are staffed and have been improved has also changed things. From my occasional observations places like Bethnal Green are vastly busier now than they used to be 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I haven't noticed massive changes on the Chingford line but I expect it is busier off peak. It was always and remains busy in the peaks as is the route via Seven Sisters.

The patronage stats, in the London Datastore, for London Overground show continued growth but unfortunately the numbers are not broken down by line / route.
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Parts of that area have indeed grown as they've become more vibrant and trendy (hipster culture etc). I'd be surprised if that many people weren't aware that there was a railway line along the "A10 corridor", buses are convenient as they stop nearer where people want to go, and of course they are often cheaper. And going south the trains don't go to where many people in the area want to go (the West End) hence the vast number of people who use bus routes like the 73 and 38. Maybe Crossrail at Liverpool St will encourage people to use that route instead, but the convenience of a direct bus is still attractive to many

I imagine Uber has also had an impact on travel patterns in the area
 
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AlanFry1

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'I can't imagine the London Overground in that area is busy' - The 7:18 from White Hart Lane this morning, between Stamford Hill and Stoke Newington - an 8 car train too...
 

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bb21

bb21

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WhiteHartLane said:
They most certainly are.
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You may want to elaborate a bit more, as otherwise it just becomes a "I say so, you say otherwise" stalemate.

I don't think the claim that "Trains in the off peak now are full and standing between ... Bethnal Green-Wood Street." tallies with my experiences, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
 
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AlanFry1

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bb21 said:
You may want to elaborate a bit more, as otherwise it just becomes a "I say so, you say otherwise" stalemate.

I don't think the claim that "Trains in the off peak now are full and standing between ... Bethnal Green-Wood Street." tallies with my experiences, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
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I used the line plenty of times recently between Walthamstow Central and Hackney Downs, and the train has been full and standing, even after unloading of Vic line commuters at Walthamstow
 
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greatkingrat

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But what time is that? 0718 in the morning isn't what I would consider "off-peak". No-one is denying that peak trains can be full and standing.
 
prod_pep

prod_pep

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WhiteHartLane said:
When did you last use the line? I've not managed to get a seat from White Hart Lane in about 4 years unless it's a match day only service.
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I last used these lines twice in December 2017. I returned from Edmonton Green and while the train was well-used until Seven Sisters, I think "full and standing" would be an exaggeration. A handful of standees on the train but ample seats were free. Obviously peak-time trains will be heavily used and often overcrowded, but that simply isn't the case outside peak hours on the West Anglia lines from my own observations.
 
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Bald Rick

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I've used the line regularly (every few weeks) in the last two years, and have never had to stand off peak. I've not had to stand in the down peak either, but then I get on at Liverpool St, and they fill up considerably at Seven Sisters.

Of course with the new trains I will stand all the time, as I don't much fancy travelling sideways.
 
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sjoh

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WhiteHartLane said:
I used the line plenty of times recently between Walthamstow Central and Hackney Downs, and the train has been full and standing, even after unloading of Vic line commuters at Walthamstow
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I use it every single day both peak and off-peak, and have done so for nigh on 7 years. I have never had to stand in the off peak.
 
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plcd1

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sjoh said:
I use it every single day both peak and off-peak, and have done so for nigh on 7 years. I have never had to stand in the off peak.
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I cannot claim anything like that regularity but I've never had to stand off peak on any journey on the Chingford Line in 30+ years of using the line. I have had a few horrible peak time journeys - usually the result of short formations that result in awful overcrowding. From limited observations I'd certainly say off peak usage is higher than it used to be but nothing to trouble the capacity available on a class 315.
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Well I don’t like sideways seating either but if it means more standing room that could prove very helpful for me. If I’m returning from a home game at White Hart Lane I normally take a fast GA service from Northumberland Park, but if these new 710s have more standing room then it might be easier to take one of those instead!
 
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sjoh

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
Well I don’t like sideways seating either but if it means more standing room that could prove very helpful for me. If I’m returning from a home game at White Hart Lane I normally take a fast GA service from Northumberland Park, but if these new 710s have more standing room then it might be easier to take one of those instead!
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What fast service would that be!?
 
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AlanFry1

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I would have to completely rubbish claims of no overcrowding - what I experienced this morning on the 7:48 from WHL was the worst out of match days I have ever experienced - I really hope they don't put the 710s into four/five car only allocation.
 
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sjoh

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WhiteHartLane said:
I would have to completely rubbish claims of no overcrowding - what I experienced this morning on the 7:48 from WHL was the worst out of match days I have ever experienced - I really hope they don't put the 710s into four/five car only allocation.
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Firstly, this clearly isn't the Chingford line. Secondly, 7:48 is bang in the middle of the peak. In fact, I don't think you could be any more bang in the middle of the peak.

We've collectively established that your claim that the line between Hackney Downs and Walthamstow is 'full and standing in the off peak' simply does not match up to the actual situation. Absolutely nobody has attempted to claim that these lines are not busy during peak hours.
 
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AlanFry1

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sjoh said:
Firstly, this clearly isn't the Chingford line. Secondly, 7:48 is bang in the middle of the peak. In fact, I don't think you could be any more bang in the middle of the peak.

We've collectively established that your claim that the line between Hackney Downs and Walthamstow is 'full and standing in the off peak' simply does not match up to the actual situation. Absolutely nobody has attempted to claim that these lines are not busy during peak hours.
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I'm bound to use the lines in the next few weeks so I'll upload a few photos from my experiences
 
D365

D365

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I'm assuming that it is numbered 258 to follow from the Class 378 series?
 
D365

D365

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Ah hadn't seen that post. My assumption was because wikipedia states only one unit constructed, figure that's long out of date now.
 
goblinuser

goblinuser

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Domh245 said:
It seems that 710258 has half been dispatched to France on some low-loaders with the rest to follow in due course. Supposedly for high speed testing and testing of new software as Old Dalby is full. Most odd

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bev4B0WgDq1/
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Despite having an undersea tunnel linking the rail network with the continent, the choice is made to send trains carriage by carriage on lorries using a ferry. It seems wrong
 
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