Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[Feathers44]

The 707's are perfect for the 8 car limited Orpington-Vic & Dartford-Vic routes. These are crush loaded in the peak and need sorting- the infrastructure would require massive rebuilding (e.g Brixton) to allow even 10 coach 376/Networker operation which won't happen for years. This is a quick fix.

Sorry, I don't understand. You're proposing replacing 8 cars with 5 (since 10 won't fit)? What am I missing?

 

[physics34]

Sorry, I don't understand. You're proposing replacing 8 cars with 5 (since 10 won't fit)? What am I missing?

with SDO i guess?

 

[GW43125]

with SDO i guess?

Doesn't anything longer than 8car calling at Brixton block the junction?

 

[class387]

Could the 707s be reformed into 4 and 6 car trains so they can be used in 6, 8, 10 and 12 car formations on the Southeastern?

The 458s would make good 455 replacements on Southern as they already run in multiples of 5 with the newer Electrostars.

EDIT: Suggestion amended, see post #1150

 

[theageofthetra]

Doesn't anything longer than 8car calling at Brixton block the junction?

Only on the down- but fair point. Mind you extending the down is less of a problem.

 

[Fincra5]

Could the 707s be reformed into 4 and 6 car trains so they can be used in 6, 8, 10 and 12 car formations on the Southeastern?

The 458s would make good 455 replacements on Southern as they already run in multiples of 5 with the newer Electrostars.

So would the 707s by that logic. 707's would be better for metro than the 377s/455s.

 

[class387]

So would the 707s by that logic. 707's would be better for metro than the 377s/455s.

Yes, both types would work for both ideas.

 

[ScotGG]

The 707's are perfect for the 8 car limited Orpington-Vic & Dartford-Vic routes. These are crush loaded in the peak and need sorting- the infrastructure would require massive rebuilding (e.g Brixton) to allow even 10 coach 376/Networker operation which won't happen for years. This is a quick fix.

Agree that line is packed and badly needs more capacity. 707s would be great if if 4-car doubled up but they're 5-car. How easy is it to now make 4 car? And more money wasted.

 

[swt_passenger]

Could the 707s be reformed into 4 and 6 car trains so they can be used in 6, 8, 10 and 12 car formations on the Southeastern?

They only have the two motored end coaches, previous discussions about this (it has been brought up a few times) have suggested that the potential 6 car version would need more motor bogies added. So it sounds as though it isn't something that could be done quickly.

 

[class387]

They only have the two motored end coaches, previous discussions about this (it has been brought up a few times) have suggested that the potential 6 car version would need more motor bogies added. So it sounds as though it isn't something that could be done quickly.

In that case, following on from my suggestion, would it be more suitable to keep the 707s as is (sending them to Southern), and then have the 458s converted to 4s (formed M-T-T-M) and 6s (formed M-T-T-M-T-M) and send those to Southeastern instead?

 

[WWTownEnth]

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere above but is it still than plan to use all 30 707 units on the Windsor lines until the new trains arrive in 2019?

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere above but is it still than plan to use all 30 707 units on the Windsor lines until the new trains arrive in 2019?

We just don't know. As I posted yesterday, Roger Ford (of Modern Railways) is being quoted as saying in another mag, Rail Business Intelligence, that they will not enter service in the southwestern area at all.

Confirmation eagerly awaited.

 

[Deepgreen]

We just don't know. As I posted yesterday, Roger Ford (of Modern Railways) is being quoted as saying in another mag, Rail Business Intelligence, that they will not enter service at all.

Confirmation eagerly awaited.

Straight to scrap, then!?

 

[swt_passenger]

Straight to scrap, then!?

Oops! Fixed...

 

[pompeyfan]

Not seen this path before, running at the moment is 5Q80 Wimbledon - Bournemouth depot about 20 minutes late through Fleet, formed of 10/707.

 

[Monty]

Not seen this path before, running at the moment is 5Q80 Wimbledon - Bournemouth depot about 20 minutes late through Fleet, formed of 10/707.

707s are running to Petersfield in the morning and Bournemouth in the afternoon due to Royal Ascot this week on the Reading road.

 

[swt_passenger]

Eastleigh about 1540 this afternoon. For the avoidance of doubt, this is not meant to imply the start of servics to Bournemouth, maintenance at Bournemouth, or use by Alliance Rail on Southampton services...

 

[pompeyfan]

Eastleigh about 1540 this afternoon. For the avoidance of doubt, this is not meant to imply the start of servics to Bournemouth, maintenance at Bournemouth, or use by Alliance Rail on Southampton services...

What about the 458s, will they do any of the above?

 

[swt_passenger]

What about the 458s, will they do any of the above?

I expect they are due to move to Virgin Galactic. Some sort of space travel, rising from the ashes sort of thing...

 

[pompeyfan]

I expect they are due to move to Virgin Galactic. Some sort of space travel, rising from the ashes sort of thing...

Oh, I was hoping they'd end up with transit van engines and run on the Cornish branch lines....

Anyway....

 

[MatthewRead]

Oh, I was hoping they'd end up with transit van engines and run on the Cornish branch lines....

Anyway....

No you might get the 455's as DEMU's

 

[D365]

Some sort of space travel, rising from the ashes sort of thing...

I had to read that twice

 

[bgstrowger]

The Desiro city platform is supposed to be modular isn't it, so could an additional order of trailer cars be put in to make the Class 707s 6 cars?

Much better fit for the Southeastern suburban services I would've thought.

 

[Roast Veg]

The Desiro city platform is supposed to be modular isn't it, so could an additional order of trailer cars be put in to make the Class 707s 6 cars?

Much better fit for the Southeastern suburban services I would've thought.

The 707s do not have enough motored bogies to make another trailer viable, as shown in the specifications upthread compared to other stock. A new motored car would work, but then there's the question of whether 6 cars is right for SE, which it probably isn't.

 

[bgstrowger]

The 707s do not have enough motored bogies to make another trailer viable, as shown in the specifications upthread compared to other stock. A new motored car would work, but then there's the question of whether 6 cars is right for SE, which it probably isn't.

I'd have thought that 6-cars would be quite right for SE suburban services if the infrastructure is now based around 12-car working.

How many motored vehicles does a 12-car Class 700 have out of interest?

 

[hwl]

I'd have thought that 6-cars would be quite right for SE suburban services if the infrastructure is now based around 12-car working.

How many motored vehicles does a 12-car Class 700 have out of interest?

6 with 50% powered axles overall. But the 707s also have smaller motors compared to the 700s and just 40% powered axles too and worse power to weight than a networker...

Bombardier Aventra have more motor cars but similar number of powered axles.
E.g. 345s 9 car with 8 motor cars but 20 of 36 axles powered.

 

[D365]

I'd have thought that 6-cars would be quite right for SE suburban services if the infrastructure is now based around 12-car working.

Depends on sidings and depot road lengths as they might only be set up for four car units.

 

[hwl]

Depends on sidings and depot road lengths as they might only be set up for four car units.

Shouldn't be an issue unless you want to go all 6 car at the same time which is unlikely.

 

[MatthewRead]

Heard that they may not enter service at all as the new franchise starts soon and they've already got new trains on order.

 

[spark001uk]

I read somewhere that FMTR don't want trains with no toilets, so that justifies one reason for them wanting to ditch the 707s (unless they get the toilets retro fitted), and I also assume that means the 458s will get the push too, as the majority of those may as well have no toilets.