Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[SpacePhoenix]

Eh? If you're suggesting that code is removed, it won't be exactly the same software will it.

Won't they be keeping the AC gubbins etc to allow them to convert to dual voltage?

They might not necessarily have "removed" the AC and dual voltage parts of the code, they might still be there but hidden from the interface that the driver sees

 

[Monty]

Usually a staff member or two leaves the train at this station so I doubt they're being trained!

Practical handling training takes place at least 4 times a week, so more often than not it probably is guards being trained. Also additional staff including engineers from Angel, SWT and Siemens are on board. Most will stick their heads out at stations to observe the door systems function and prevent half asleep passengers from boarding.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Iv not really been keeping up with the discussion on this but popped over for a nosy and oh look, another class of unit from this seaming idolised (on this forum anyway) that isnt working propperly. Im in shock!

Taking my sinical self off elsewhere again now.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Software wise I can imagine a few differences compared to 700s. That is even if Siemens tried to keep the software exactly the same. The software would need modifying to be able to understand the absence of the AC gear. After all how would the software detect a correctly lowered pan (to avoid bridge bashes) if it is not there !. A big difference would be multiple working - something not relevant in normal class 700 operation.

As far as I know there are still only the first ten 707s in the UK ?.

 

[spark001uk]

Definitely a lot of focus on multiple working with this class yes.
.
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[Side note] 007/008 doing brief station stops on 5Q40 today.

 

[Class455]

Had a a 707 been delivered today? Currently watching 47848 shunting in Clapham Yard.

 

[Driver@swt]

Had a a 707 been delivered today? Currently watching 47848 shunting in Clapham Yard.

No! The loco is the one with a buffer missing in need of repair following the the incident when shunting during the last 707 delivery.
No more 707 deliveries for a while now.

 

[spark001uk]

Here's a question: being that there is no inter-unit gangway, will the PIS of a 10 car only show passenger loading for that 5 car unit? Or will it show it for the full 10 and assume you would get back out and into the other unit at the next stop if you wanted to?

 

[absolutelymilk]

Is entry into service still planned for June?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Depends on whether they can get the fault free mileage accumulation done.

Also whether they have enough driver's trained on them too.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Depends on whether they can get the fault free mileage accumulation done.

Also whether they have enough driver's trained on them too.

Have they got many drivers trained on them yet?

From a guard's point of view are they the same as the Desiro "classics" with no differences from what a guard will do and/or operate?

 

[Class455]

Have they got many drivers trained on them yet?

From a guard's point of view are they the same as the Desiro "classics" with no differences from what a guard will do and/or operate?

I thought the 707's are going to be DOO?

 

[43096]

I thought the 707's are going to be DOO?

They have the cameras etc for DOO, but all SWT services have guards. That is not changing.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I thought the 707's are going to be DOO?

Don't be so vulgar please. DOO is not happening anytime soon on SWT metals.

 

[Class455]

Don't be so vulgar please. DOO is not happening anytime soon on SWT metals.

I remember reading an article during the time of the Southern strikes that RMT members were planning to strike on Merseyrail and Soutb West Trains on the introduction of their new trains. And as the 700's do not have guards, I would've thought the 707's did not need them either

 

[Townsend Hook]

I remember reading an article during the time of the Southern strikes that RMT members were planning to strike on Merseyrail and Soutb West Trains on the introduction of their new trains. And as the 700's do not have guards, I would've thought the 707's did not need them either

Technically they don't need guards, but they will be operated with guards. After all, what's the point in getting in a fight with the RMT about DOO when SWT will only exist for two more months and FirstMTR SW will be dumping the units as soon as they can anyway?

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Siemens have had the foresight to fit the trains as DOO-capable from day one, whist also having the capability to run with guard operation. If you've been lucky enough to see the driver's dash, you'll see that the door release is concealed beneath launch control-style safety flaps. Their sister 700s on Thameslink lack these covers, given they were intended to run as DOO from day one. Likewise, The 700s also have guard panels, despite Grayling's attempt to convince the public that they weren't there and would cost the earth to install.

 

[AlexNL]

Siemens have had the foresight to fit the trains as DOO-capable from day one

Isn't that a DfT requirement for all new-built commuter stock, even for those that will run on lines that have never seen DOO in their life? It would allow for easier cascade to areas that do have DOO.

I would not be surprised if the 707's turn up on Southeastern services at some point, if/when they've been returned by FirstMTR.

 

[D365]

I would not be surprised if the 707's turn up on Southeastern services at some point, if/when they've been returned by FirstMTR.

Eh, wouldn't more five car units defeat the point of all the platform extensions?

 

[hwl]

Isn't that a DfT requirement for all new-built commuter stock, even for those that will run on lines that have never seen DOO in their life? It would allow for easier cascade to areas that do have DOO.

I would not be surprised if the 707's turn up on Southeastern services at some point, if/when they've been returned by FirstMTR.

Probably with an intermediate trailer car removed to become a 4 car with a similar power to weight ratio to the existing networkers or lenghten to 6 adding an extra motor car.
SE metro really needs 12car so 4 or 6 car multiples would be ideal

 

[SF-02]

Eh, wouldn't more five car units defeat the point of all the platform extensions?

It very much would defeat the millions spent make SE Metro mostly 12 car but the DfT, and Grayling, don't seem to have a clue. They'll have new trains sitting around so send them over, even if they are a bad fit.

 

[Goldfish62]

Eh, wouldn't more five car units defeat the point of all the platform extensions?

Porterbrook have stated that they'll be offering the 458s for South Eastern.

 

[hwl]

Porterbrook have stated that they'll be offering the 458s for South Eastern.

Well it is either that or long term storage /the scrap heap for the 458s.
SE really don't need more 5car units.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Well it is either that or long term storage /the scrap heap for the 458s.
SE really don't need more 5car units.

Will Porterbrook by now have looked into the feasibility of retrofitting pan wells to the 458s that used to be 460s? The ones that used to be 458/0s have at least got a (very slightly) better chance of finding a new home once they are replaced by the Aventras (along with the 707s being replaced)

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently Roger Ford is reporting in Rail Business Intelligence that the 707s will never enter service on the southwestern.

That is probably more relevant to this thread than scratching over the old and much discussed 458 pantograph issues. It was said in 2007 that there was no business case for AC conversion of the 458s as they were. It isn't likely to have changed with brand new units suddenly being so popular.

 

[Feathers44]

Apparently Roger Ford is reporting in Rail Business Intelligence that the 707s will never enter service on the southwestern.

How can that be? Has the 'identified need' that led to the procurement just gone away suddenly? It seems a little unlikely to me given the training investment that must have been made already (but I am a pure layman in railway matters).

 

[paok]

This isn't exactly clear:

https://twitter.com/SW_Trains/status/876861962768060416

 

[ScotGG]

Well it is either that or long term storage /the scrap heap for the 458s.
SE really don't need more 5car units.

Exactly. SE should really be a 4/8/12 car railway. The 466s will go soon it seems. The 376s an anomoly. If 458s or 707s move there then they need reforming.

Network Rail spent millions extending platforms and upgrading power in the London area for 12-car running over the past five years but SE Metro lack enough stock to have more than 3 across the entire morning peak, and 1 in the evening.

It'd need modest cost to finish the job, or at least allow many more 12-car trains over the next decade. The Kent Route Study put it at £50-£100m according to extent of work. Minimal compared to Thameslink and the like.

But instead of that will we see more 5/10 car services which will provide only a short term fillip, at best, to housebuilding and passenger growth?

 

[theageofthetra]

Exactly. SE should really be a 4/8/12 car railway. The 466s will go soon it seems. The 376s an anomoly. If 458s or 707s move there then they need reforming.

Network Rail spent millions extending platforms and upgrading power in the London area for 12-car running over the past five years but SE Metro lack enough stock to have more than 3 across the entire morning peak, and 1 in the evening.

It'd need modest cost to finish the job, or at least allow many more 12-car trains over the next decade. The Kent Route Study put it at £50-£100m according to extent of work. Minimal compared to Thameslink and the like.

But instead of that will we see more 5/10 car services which will provide only a short term fillip, at best, to housebuilding and passenger growth?

The 707's are perfect for the 8 car limited Orpington-Vic & Dartford-Vic routes. These are crush loaded in the peak and need sorting- the infrastructure would require massive rebuilding (e.g Brixton) to allow even 10 coach 376/Networker operation which won't happen for years. This is a quick fix.

 

[Domh245]

The 707's are perfect for the 8 car limited Orpington-Vic & Dartford-Vic routes. These are crush loaded in the peak and need sorting- the infrastructure would require massive rebuilding (e.g Brixton) to allow even 10 coach 376/Networker operation which won't happen for years. This is a quick fix.

Apart from being 5 cars...