Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[MartinB1]

It's a bit sad they don't have anything better to do at that time of night. Sad scumbags.

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[Goldfish62]

Things change. Stop assuming that info a month old is always set in stone.

So are you actually saying it's definite that they are all being introduced by 20 August or are you just trying to make some sort of point that plans can change?
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It happened at Clapham where the unit was stored overnight. I have now been reliably informed it's been moved into the shed at Clapham Yard no doubt so it can be cleaned up away from prying eyes. Speaking bluntly, this is what of should of happened in the first place when the unit arrived. The area around Clapham is notorious for graffiti and much of the trackside equipment and bridges on the way to Waterloo have been tagged. Using that siding which is outside of the Clapham Yard boundary fence was just asking for trouble.

I've seen some very bad graffiti on SWT recently. Given that silver paint is relatively easy to remove I hope there won't be any residual damage, although I suspect some of the vinyls may need to be replaced.

 

[spark001uk]

I'm shocked it was put right down there. I felt sure that it was going to be put in the shed out of the way. Not that it excuses what they did to it, but in the shed it would've been harder to get to unseen.

 

[Class377/5]

So are you actually saying it's definite that they are all being introduced by 20 August or are you just trying to make some sort of point that plans can change?.

Both, not announced byt that's the plan. Although it I'm not the one who originally said they'd be in service by franchise end.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I'd not read this thread for a day or two and didn't know it'd be at CJ (hauled by 20142 looking very fine in maroon LT livery) just as I was passing through. Was gobsmacked to see the silvery sprawl down one side of a brand new unit.

Saw that and 707001 but didn't see the graffitied side.The class 20 looked well nice.Long time since I've seen a class 20.

 

[Monty]

I've seen some very bad graffiti on SWT recently. Given that silver paint is relatively easy to remove I hope there won't be any residual damage, although I suspect some of the vinyls may need to be replaced.

A while back we seemed to have a real problem with graffiti before it died down for a bit, though at one point it got so bad to the point we had a set of empties tagged while it was stood at a red signal for no more than 15 minutes! I do agree however that has been been a resurgence in this abhorrent activity recently.

 

[Deepgreen]

How does someone do that without being caught. Are there times when Clapham Junction doesn't have anyone around much? How would they get there?

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How do do people get away with graffiti-daubing almost every inch of railway between New Cross and London Bridge, or Clapham Junction to Waterloo/Victoria? Or anywhere else? Staff either do not notice in the dark, are not there, or will not put themselves at risk bounding along the railway to try to catch/be assaulted by the vandals. The railway has been out of control for decades regarding this issue and this is nothing new. It just happens to be a new train, but the vandals probably didn't know that. However, presumably something has to use that siding, and it doesn't matter whether it was a 707 or 455 that was hit, the outcome is the same (probably actually less with the 707 because it won't be in service for months).

707001 was tucked at the back of 7 road in the shed this morning, and the maroon class 20 was at the end of a open air road. I also noticed 37800 with a long mixed freight was occupying a road close to the Windsor lines (presumably having been 'put away' for some reason), so a mixed bag at Clapham today!

 

[swt_passenger]

I also noticed 37800 with a long mixed freight was occupying a road close to the Windsor lines (presumably having been 'put away' for some reason)...

That's one of the locos (perhaps both), the brake force consist, and the translator wagons, that the 707 was delivered between surely?

 

[trainmania100]

That's one of the locos (perhaps both), the brake force consist, and the translator wagons, that the 707 was delivered between surely?

37800 is still at Clapham, 37884 was used for the 375 drag over the weekend so is at derby or thereabouts
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How do do people get away with graffiti-daubing almost every inch of railway between New Cross and London Bridge, or Clapham Junction to Waterloo/Victoria? Or anywhere else? Staff either do not notice in the dark, are not there, or will not put themselves at risk bounding along the railway to try to catch/be assaulted by the vandals. The railway has been out of control for decades regarding this issue and this is nothing new. It just happens to be a new train, but the vandals probably didn't know that. However, presumably something has to use that siding, and it doesn't matter whether it was a 707 or 455 that was hit, the outcome is the same (probably actually less with the 707 because it won't be in service for months).

707001 was tucked at the back of 7 road in the shed this morning, and the maroon class 20 was at the end of a open air road. I also noticed 37800 with a long mixed freight was occupying a road close to the Windsor lines (presumably having been 'put away' for some reason), so a mixed bag at Clapham today!

I have seen some graffitti in some strange places and it makes me wonder how they get to some of these places take London Road viaduct bridge for instance, over 100m high and its quite a long bridge from end to end, people must walk along it at night

 

[Deepgreen]

That's one of the locos (perhaps both), the brake force consist, and the translator wagons, that the 707 was delivered between surely?

Does it really take such a huge use of stock just to deliver a five car unit?! The unit was delivered by 20142, the maroon-liveried example. Did 37800 and what looks like at least 20 vehicles really have to accompany the 707 and 20142? Amazing.

 

[spark001uk]

Does it really take such a huge use of stock just to deliver a five car unit?! The unit was delivered by 20142, the maroon-liveried example. Did 37800 and what looks like at least 20 vehicles really have to accompany the 707 and 20142? Amazing.

It was delivered by 37800+884 double headed, with the wagonset as brake force, 20142 was nothing to do with it.

 

[trainmania100]

Trains are quite heavy, and the 707 wouldnt have had any brakes during the delivery.
Quite a lot of wagons would be required to replace the brakes on that 707

 

[swt_passenger]

Does it really take such a huge use of stock just to deliver a five car unit?!

Well it will probably save altering the consist between trips with 707s, and 8 or 12 car 700s. This delivery was supposed to be two 707s together as originally posted. A number of 700 delivery videos exist that suggest these are the exact same vehicles.

The unit was delivered by 20142, the maroon-liveried example. Did 37800 and what looks like at least 20 vehicles really have to accompany the 707 and 20142? Amazing.

I suggest 20142 has only been used for shunting in the vicinity of Clapham Jn.

There have been quite a number of previous discussions as to why they use so many brake force vehicles with Desiro City deliveries from Germany, (mainly in the 700 thread) and this is definitely not unusual.

 

[Deepgreen]

Trains are quite heavy, and the 707 wouldnt have had any brakes during the delivery.
Quite a lot of wagons would be required to replace the brakes on that 707

Thanks. As a matter of interest, why can't the brakes on units being delivered
be operable?

 

[spark001uk]

Thanks. As a matter of interest, why can't the brakes on units being delivered
be operable?

As mentioned on here earlier, the units haven't been commissioned as yet, and as such the brakes are not yet set up.

 

[Deepgreen]

As mentioned on here earlier, the units haven't been commissioned as yet, and as such the brakes are not yet set up.

Interesting. I would suggest that it might be beneficial to 'set up' the brakes before delivery, as presumably there is only one overall setting required for service. Why not do this at the construction plant, rather than on delivery? It seems to me that there is huge energy wastage in having to use a medium-length freight consist to move a unit just because its brakes are inoperable!

As a matter of interest (again) do all manufacturers follow this regime?

 

[Class377/5]

Interesting. I would suggest that it might be beneficial to 'set up' the brakes before delivery, as presumably there is only one overall setting required for service. Why not do this at the construction plant, rather than on delivery? It seems to me that there is huge energy wastage in having to use a medium-length freight consist to move a unit just because its brakes are inoperable!

As a matter of interest (again) do all manufacturers follow this regime?

Because EMUs need power to get the brakes off, try delivering unis through multiple countries. And that's without the fact you'd then need to ensure the units are compatible with signalling etc.

Of course you could decided to generate power on a wagon but then you have issues with going through the Channel Tunnel so it's not a good idea.

It's easier, cheaper and quick to haul the unit dead as happens with most deliveries.

Worth noting the 377/387 from Bombardier out of Derby and all Siemens units have been hauled on delivery.

 

[Deepgreen]

Because EMUs need power to get the brakes off, try delivering unis through multiple countries. And that's without the fact you'd then need to ensure the units are compatible with signalling etc.

Of course you could decided to generate power on a wagon but then you have issues with going through the Channel Tunnel so it's not a good idea.

It's easier, cheaper and quick to haul the unit dead as happens with most deliveries.

Worth noting the 377/387 from Bombardier out of Derby and all Siemens units have been hauled on delivery.

Why would hauled (brakes working) units need to be signalling-compatible? Surely just the hauling loco would need to be. Does the entire rake of old container wagons, etc., travel with the unit from start to finish, or are various different rakes used across Europe?

 

[WWTownEnth]

SW trains say these come into service between June and December 2017. Is that right? A few people on here have mentioned March to July 2017 and the entry window for all 30 units.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why couldn't they have been commissioned at Dollands Moor then gone to Clapham on their own power? The 66s when they came over were commisioned at the dockside then moved off on their own power

 

[D365]

Why couldn't they have been commissioned at Dollands Moor then gone to Clapham on their own power? The 66s when they came over were commisioned at the dockside then moved off on their own power

:roll: 'Go-anywhere' diesel locomotives are a different kettle of fish.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why couldn't they have been commissioned at Dollands Moor then gone to Clapham on their own power? The 66s when they came over were commisioned at the dockside then moved off on their own power

All of them? No one would have been trained to drive them, and they wouldn't have been tested and certified for use on NR infrastructure initially.

 

[BRX]

The consist of brake force wagons etc went back to Dollands (and I'm guessing on through the chunnel) this afternoon. Not sure when the next delivery is due.

 

[spark001uk]

The consist of brake force wagons etc went back to Dollands (and I'm guessing on through the chunnel) this afternoon. Not sure when the next delivery is due.

Getting ready to leave earlier.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

No one would have been trained to drive them

Ever heard of a thing called a test track?

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/ews-workhorses-will-deliver-savings.html

When asked whether taking delivery of 250 locos would be a challenge, Fisk said 'I don't believe it is. I believe it's like buying an automobile'. He underlined the point by explaining what will be required when the locos are lifted off the boat at Newport. 'We just need to unblock the suspension, hook up the batteries, and take off the tarpaulin. They'll even be shipped with water and fuel.' Similarly there should be no major problem with retraining staff. Drivers should have no difficulty as the PBL brakes are in widespread use, and the locos will generally behave in the same way as the Class 59.

 

[D365]

Ever heard of a thing called a test track?

A test track doesn't give you mainline certification.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

A test track doesn't give you mainline certification.

Maybe not but it can still be used for training drivers

 

[Deepgreen]

I understand that there is a large cash prize on offer (by whom and using whose funds?) to the 'taggers' who hit the newest stock, and that this is well-known in the railway 'world'. Given this, it would seem to have been the height of stupidity to have left 707001 out in the open at Clapham.
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A test track doesn't give you mainline certification.

Having operable brakes to allow sensible haulage (i.e. without a freight train accompanying each delivery) surely doesn't necessarily require full main line certification for dead haulage, otherwise it would not be permissible to move the units by rail in any state. They must be certified for the main line in some form if they are running on the network; even if un-powered, un-braked and hauled, they are still on the rails.

I know there are hurdles here, but the railway, at least in many spheres of operation, seems to be becoming less and less energy-efficient, not more. All such efficiencies seem to be lumped into the 'too-difficult' category and the option of least resistance is taken.

 

[Matt Taylor]

All of them? No one would have been trained to drive them, and they wouldn't have been tested and certified for use on NR infrastructure initially.

66001 was delivered about three months before any others and spent time at working from Toton to get a mainline certificate, 66002 was used for extensive trials in the USA but 66003-66005 were delivered to Newport and went straight into service.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ever heard of a thing called a test track?

Yes. Matt Taylor's info comes as something of a surprise, but the 3 months initial running of 66001 at least proves the point that they didn't all enter service straight off the boat.

Maybe their descendancy from the 59s helped a bit in terms of things such as gauging and type approval.