Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

South Eastern Metro increases are not that substantial and across most - if not all - Metro lines are still someway below 2021 levels. Better than 2023 but that's a low bar.

SE are good at PR but the reality is lines are still pretty lacking and services will continue that way into 2025.

So they're not increasing services by the number they state from December, or restoring a minimum 4tph off-peak to all metro stations?

My point, which it seems I did not make clearly enough, is that SWR will have more than enough rolling stock to increase service levels at will and that a good starting point would be to increase service levels back to 4tph+ at all metro stations as South Eastern are doing from December (or maybe they're not doing if you're correct). As it stands the woeful 2tph at stations such as Mortlake, Brentford and Hounslow does nothing to stimulate passenger growth.

 

[Olivine]

So they're not increasing services by the number they state from December, or restoring a minimum 4tph off-peak to all metro stations?

My point, which it seems I did not make clearly enough, is that SWR will have more than enough rolling stock to increase service levels at will and that a good starting point would be to increase service levels back to 4tph+ at all metro stations as South Eastern are doing from December (or maybe they're not doing if you're correct). As it stands the woeful 2tph at stations such as Mortlake, Brentford and Hounslow does nothing to stimulate passenger growth.

You are absolutely right but it’s a moot point now as there is no incentive for any private operator to do anything except meet the minimum (arguably, always was with a management contract).

The naysayers will say TFL won’t take over services rapidly - there won’t be changes in the next three years to service levels but once TFL has a solid grip of demand they will promptly increase services as their mandate is to run a network for the benefit of the passengers, not deliver what D(a)FT wish them to do.

The opportunity for SE metro and GN Moorgate are again moot points; it’s all going to be government run so why would GBR desire to take control over something when their labour run GLA could take it over and run it better.

Mods do feel free to hive off to a new thread; we do like a good TFL running metro services chat and the situation has most certainly changed with GBR.

 

[Goldfish62]

You are absolutely right but it’s a moot point now as there is no incentive for any private operator to do anything except meet the minimum (arguably, always was with a management contract).

My last word on the matter.

Agree with what you're saying, but of course SWR won't be a private operator from May.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Is Sunday part of the working week for SWR drivers, assuming the training starts on the 28th (tomorrow)?

 

[TEW]

Yes, but the course won't be starting on a Sunday. The trainers will mostly be working Monday to Friday for a start.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Yes, but the course won't be starting on a Sunday. The trainers will mostly be working Monday to Friday for a start.

I see, that makes sense.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Never understood why the 701s and the Aventras use yellow headlights. They're not halogen, it's LED, so it doesn't make much sense.
The model for those interested:

BMAC EN15153-1 Compliant Multifunctional LED Headlight Unit (55010X Series) | BMAC

www.bmac.ltd.uk

 

[class701]

Surely a near 60% drop in train seats on SWR (and other) suburban lines since Covid should be illegal. We have seen four an hour reduced to two, plus ten-car reduced to eight. That is a huge drop and they cannot even run the remaining trains on time. SWR frequently cut ALL stations beyond Raynes Park to Waterloo. On Monday last week our train was 20+ late, so we ran fast to Waterloo. Then on the way home hours later, exactly the same thing happened again. We ran fast from Waterloo to Raynes Park. That for us was brilliant, but it does fudge the on-time figures big time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Surely a near 60% drop in train seats on SWR (and other) suburban lines since Covid should be illegal. We have seen four an hour reduced to two, plus ten-car reduced to eight. That is a huge drop and they cannot even run the remaining trains on time. SWR frequently cut ALL stations beyond Raynes Park to Waterloo. On Monday last week our train was 20+ late, so we ran fast to Waterloo. Then on the way home hours later, exactly the same thing happened again. We ran fast from Waterloo to Raynes Park. That for us was brilliant, but it does fudge the on-time figures big time.

I think SWR in particular has seen a quite drastic drop in passenger numbers and what is left might will be spread more into the off peak times. Generally it is easy to see a 40% drop as many people have only returned to the office on three out of five days per week. Others have not returned or are still working mostly from home. The vast majority of London based commuting is for office work and into Waterloo it tends to be for the type of office workers that are more likely to work from home.

It is discussed in more detail in other threads. The railways are missing a lot of lucrative annual season ticket revenue since Covid and not many people want to return to commuting really. It really is a dark time for the railways - very few using the railways to get to work ever wanted to have to use railways. The genie is out of the bottle and everyone knows home working is possible.

The loss of frequency is the worst part as that does damage attractiveness more than train capacity. But who is going to pay.

This is getting off topic so have a hunt around for the other threads.

 

[NorthLondoner]

Unfortunately cuts and directivnese from the DfT has led to many operators to reduce services post-Covid. Regardless of service usage.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely a near 60% drop in train seats on SWR (and other) suburban lines since Covid should be illegal. We have seen four an hour reduced to two, plus ten-car reduced to eight. That is a huge drop and they cannot even run the remaining trains on time. SWR frequently cut ALL stations beyond Raynes Park to Waterloo. On Monday last week our train was 20+ late, so we ran fast to Waterloo. Then on the way home hours later, exactly the same thing happened again. We ran fast from Waterloo to Raynes Park. That for us was brilliant, but it does fudge the on-time figures big time.

I thought it’s been explained that any skip stopping gets treated as a performance failure irrespective of the time being made up.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Through the steam

 

[norbitonflyer]

I thought it’s been explained that any skip stopping gets treated as a performance failure irrespective of the time being made up.

Nevertheless it does affect the figures as it means the train can take up its next service on time. This may - or may not - be helpful, depending on whether the people inconvienced by the skip stopping are outnumbered by the people benefitting from the resulting on time departure. (SWR love skip-stopping peak direction services to get a counter-peak service on time)

 

[NSEWonderer]

So has said training started yet?

 

[Goldfish62]

So has said training started yet?

Stated several posts back that it's starting this week.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Stated several posts back that it's starting this week.

I'm aware. More so it mentioned 28th. Was wondering if it had actually began.

Best I believe to wait till the end of the week then

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm aware. More so it mentioned 28th. Was wondering if it had actually began.

Best I believe to wait till the end of the week then

Post #9785 stated that it wouldn't be the 28th because that's a Sunday and the trainers work Mon-Fri.

 

[DMckduck]

So they're not increasing services by the number they state from December, or restoring a minimum 4tph off-peak to all metro stations?

My point, which it seems I did not make clearly enough, is that SWR will have more than enough rolling stock to increase service levels at will and that a good starting point would be to increase service levels back to 4tph+ at all metro stations as South Eastern are doing from December (or maybe they're not doing if you're correct). As it stands the woeful 2tph at stations such as Mortlake, Brentford and Hounslow does nothing to stimulate passenger growth.

SWR have struggled to recover establishment figures since the drop to a 37 hour week in December 2022. That is why a lot of disruption is spiraling out of control.

Plus they don't even have enough drivers to run the current timetable, nevermind the pre covid timetable.

I'm sure the data would suggest a lag in recruitment for both driver and guards compared with pre 2020.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I think SWR in particular has seen a quite drastic drop in passenger numbers and what is left might will be spread more into the off peak times. Generally it is easy to see a 40% drop as many people have only returned to the office on three out of five days per week. Others have not returned or are still working mostly from home. The vast majority of London based commuting is for office work and into Waterloo it tends to be for the type of office workers that are more likely to work from home.

There goes any chance of ABDO ever being implemented beyond small portions of testing

 

[lewisf]

There goes any chance of ABDO ever being implemented beyond small portions of testing

I’d hope not. It’s not uncommon to be stuck at a red signal just outside a station during the morning peak (Wimbledon is especially bad) even with the reduced frequency. ABDO could be a real help still.

 

[Nogoohwell]

I’d hope not. It’s not uncommon to be stuck at a red signal just outside a station during the morning peak (Wimbledon is especially bad) even with the reduced frequency. ABDO could be a real help still.

Congestion at Wimbledon would be solved if they put a second foot bridge at the London end of the station to link platform 5 with the tube. AND there is plenty of space to do that too.

Its such a simple solution to the overcrowding at the rear of the train, but thats another discussion.

 

[swr444]

Congestion at Wimbledon would be solved if they put a second foot bridge at the London end of the station to link platform 5 with the tube. AND there is plenty of space to do that too.

Its such a simple solution to the overcrowding at the rear of the train, but thats another discussion.

At least once the 701s take over fully, it'll mean there will be less bunching at the 8th coach as people won't be running up the platform to the rear doors of said coach and will be able to use coach 9 + 10

 

[janahan]

At least once the 701s take over fully, it'll mean there will be less bunching at the 8th coach as people won't be running up the platform to the rear doors of said coach and will be able to use coach 9 + 10

Plus, much more easier to walk through the open carraiges. Dont underestimate this. I know many outside this forum and others "in the know" who probably used to conventions on the Tube, do not walk through doors on carraiges, but are more than happy to do so on the open Overground / Elizabeth line, and Sub Surface, irregardless of where they get on.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Filming going on unit 701042. My best guess is some sort of corporate driver training film - hopefully not the latest RED edition

 

[Goldfish62]

Plus, much more easier to walk through the open carraiges. Dont underestimate this. I know many outside this forum and others "in the know" who probably used to conventions on the Tube, do not walk through doors on carraiges, but are more than happy to do so on the open Overground / Elizabeth line, and Sub Surface, irregardless of where they get on.

It's very noticeable at Richmond on the District line and Overground. Previously with the old stock there was the tendency for the rear couple of coaches to end up rammed. Nowadays there's a continual stream of passengers walking through, resulting in an even loading throughout the train.

 

[3973EXL]

701059

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 0930 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 31/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 0930 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 31/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701518/524

Realtime Trains | 5Q86 1539 Long Marston to Worcester T.C. | 31/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q86 1539 departure from Long Marston to Worcester T.C. on 31/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Terminated Worcester

 

[mansonlo49]

701059

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 0930 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 31/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 0930 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 31/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

View attachment 162705

There‘s one diagram that is going back to Eastleigh this afternoon which 701 is it please

 

[norbitonflyer]

At least once the 701s take over fully, it'll mean there will be less bunching at the 8th coach as people won't be running up the platform to the rear doors of said coach and will be able to use coach 9 + 10

Not just at Wimbledon, but at other stations where the entrance/exit is at the rear of the train and the 8-car stop boards have been removed. Kingston (down) and Raynes Park (both directions) for example. Also leads to more crowding in the rear cars of trains to those stations, as the regulars know that is the place to be to beat the scrum at the barriers - (as if crowding in the rear cars was not already an issue as people joining late at Waterloo dive for the closest door.)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’d hope not. It’s not uncommon to be stuck at a red signal just outside a station during the morning peak (Wimbledon is especially bad) even with the reduced frequency. ABDO could be a real help still.

Indeed without DOO now its the next best thing to reduce dwell times

 

[Terry Williams]

There‘s one diagram that is going back to Eastleigh this afternoon which 701 is it please

701518/24 Reported elsewhere

HTH