Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[norbitonflyer]

First time I've heard anyone describe the Grammer E3000 seat as an ironing board. Presumably you consider all high back seats to be ironing boards?

Not all of them, no. Many high backed seats are quite comfortable. Although the 455 seats do resemble ironing boards, it's actually the narrow seat pitch which makes them unusable.

The layout in the refurbed 455s had the remarkable effect of reducing the seating capacity by nearly 20% (enough to mean that anyone joining a morning peak train in Zone 5 or later no longer got a seat, where previously they did) whilst making most of the remaining seats too close together to be usable by anyone over average height. I'm 5'9", and cannot use the window seats in airline layout - and can only use the gangway seats by sitting at an angle with my legs obstructing the gangway. And for shorter people the high backs and close seat pitch make the whole experience claustrophobic: like being in a coffin - especially if a larger passenger is sitting in the gangway seat.

And for those who do have to stand, there are fewer places to "perch", and those which remain are right by the doors, discouraging standees from "moving down the car" away from the circulation area.

 

[Carlisle]

As someone involved with that I do thank you for your positive comments. The primary reason (re-tractioning) was to allow the 455's to run for more miles before needing major overhaul at their home depot (Wimbledon). As a result this freed up maintenance time/pit space at Wimbledon for the new incoming 707 fleet,

Interesting & presumably many types of train now don’t visit their home depots as often as they used to going by the amount of stuff on some units that appears taped up or toilets out of use .

 

[Invincible]

T

Interesting & presumably many types of train now don’t visit their home depots as often as they used to going by the amount of stuff on some units that appears taped up or toilets out of use

So the new Feltham 701 depot

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2020/may/flagship-feltham-depot-begins-next-major-phase

Will just be stabling, cleaning and light servicing, with Wimbledon doing main servicing?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

First time I've heard anyone describe the Grammer E3000 seat as an ironing board. Presumably you consider all high back seats to be ironing boards?

Seat pitch is really bad and there's little padding or shaping to make up for it

 

[Carlisle]

Sounds like it

T

So the new Feltham 701 depot

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/news-and-media/news/2020/may/flagship-feltham-depot-begins-next-major-phase

Will just be stabling, cleaning and light servicing, with Wimbledon doing main servicing?

Yes, as far as I can tell it’s essentially the same as the likes of Farnham & Basingstoke sidings.

 

[Andy1673]

From next week the 701 diagram will change; will work 2U09, 2U16, 2U19, 2U26 as now but will then go to Wimbledon Park Depot. Will the return in the evening to work 2R53, 1815 Waterloo to Waterloo via Twickenham and Brentford.

It's not an exact booked LTP diagram but it means the 701 is covering an entire diagram from this point.

If so that will be pretty needless change because there are many other services which need strengthening... 2R53 only one evening peak additional service for 701 and then to depot... We wont`s see the real all day diagram. At least only one ((((

 

[Robert Carroll]

Not all of them, no. Many high backed seats are quite comfortable. Although the 455 seats do resemble ironing boards, it's actually the narrow seat pitch which makes them unusable.

The layout in the refurbed 455s had the remarkable effect of reducing the seating capacity by nearly 20% (enough to mean that anyone joining a morning peak train in Zone 5 or later no longer got a seat, where previously they did) whilst making most of the remaining seats too close together to be usable by anyone over average height. I'm 5'9", and cannot use the window seats in airline layout - and can only use the gangway seats by sitting at an angle with my legs obstructing the gangway. And for shorter people the high backs and close seat pitch make the whole experience claustrophobic: like being in a coffin - especially if a larger passenger is sitting in the gangway seat.

And for those who do have to stand, there are fewer places to "perch", and those which remain are right by the doors, discouraging standees from "moving down the car" away from the circulation area.

I'm 6'2" and have no problems with 455 seats. I have not yet been on a 701. I do find 465 Networker seats in airline style much less comfortable and too cramped.

 

[5562]

Does anyone know why the 701 move from Marchwood to Wimbledon didn’t go ahead on Thursday 20th. GBRf 69009 arrived on scheduled and hooked up but left LE an hour after scheduled departure. Believe the unit involved was 701046.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm 6'2" and have no problems with 455 seats. I have not yet been on a 701. I do find 465 Networker seats in airline style much less comfortable and too cramped.

I'm only 5'10" so have no problem whatsoever with the 455 or 701 seats, but like you do have problems with the Networker seats, which feel very small and cramped.

 

[deepeetw]

I'm only 5'10" so have no problem whatsoever with the 455 or 701 seats, but like you do have problems with the Networker seats, which feel very small and cramped.

It’s not about height in itself, it’s more about how your height is distributed between your lower body (base of spine to kneecap is the key measurement) and torso.

This is why some people well over six foot have no problem, and others just can’t fit.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Plenty of units at Long Marston - pics for those interested. All exc those at the back.

View attachment 160533 View attachment 160534
View attachment 160535 View attachment 160536
View attachment 160537

Amazing. I wonder if they get shuffled around periodically to avoid brinelling.

 

[Goldfish62]

It’s not about height in itself, it’s more about how your height is distributed between your legs (base of spine to kneecap is the key measurement) and torso.

This is why some people well over six foot have no problem, and others just can’t fit.

Yes indeed.

 

[Harman]

Amazing. I wonder if they get shuffled around periodically to avoid brinelling.

I don't want to get into the politics of these units but I do want to congratulate you on your excellent pictures.

 

[Razor1967]

044 and 017 were side by side on the "international" platforms this morning, according to facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2634297086831165

I was down in London on Thursday/Friday and caught 701037 for a quick ride from Clapham Junction to Waterloo. Air conditioning working very well on a hot day, thank goodness. Can confirm 701017 and 701044 were side by side in the old international platforms with 037 pulling in practically alongside. So 3 together, must be a first !!.

Incidentally also passed 701008 leaving Waterloo about a minute earlier too. Clapham Junction Yard held 701028/528/529 and 701042 had joined them on the Friday when I called in again.

 

[Trainman40083]

Does anyone know why the 701 move from Marchwood to Wimbledon didn’t go ahead on Thursday 20th. GBRf 69009 arrived on scheduled and hooked up but left LE an hour after scheduled departure. Believe the unit involved was 701046.

I did notice 69009 parked in Eastleigh yard on Thursday around 10.40 and on Friday around 13.10.

 

[ls2270]

Does anyone know why the 701 move from Marchwood to Wimbledon didn’t go ahead on Thursday 20th. GBRf 69009 arrived on scheduled and hooked up but left LE an hour after scheduled departure. Believe the unit involved was 701046.

The loco and unit wouldn’t work together for some reason so 69009 returned to Eastleigh Yard on its own. It’s off back to Leicester Depot on Monday morning (0Z09).

 

[5562]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I'm only 5'10" so have no problem whatsoever with the 455 or 701 seats, but like you do have problems with the Networker seats, which feel very small and cramped.

In addition, not all seats are the same on the 455s. The 'Priority Seats' next to the doors have much bigger legroom compared to the other airline seats.

 

[Goldfish62]

In addition, not all seats are the same on the 455s. The 'Priority Seats' next to the doors have much bigger legroom compared to the other airline seats.

That's because they're supposed to, for obvious reasons.

 

[amazon1675]

Does anyone know why the 701 move from Marchwood to Wimbledon didn’t go ahead on Thursday 20th. GBRf 69009 arrived on scheduled and hooked up but left LE an hour after scheduled departure. Believe the unit involved was 701046.

Coupling-up problems I believe.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

This is also slightly accentuated by the 20m Aventras (701 & 710) being wider than the 22.Xm units (345) which are in turn wider than the 24.Xm Aventra (720 and 730s).

I know this post was a very long time ago now, somehow my browser decided to put me on this page.
I had no idea that the shorter Aventras are wider, why is this the case, and does it make any noticeable difference or is it fractions of an inch?

 

[NSEWonderer]

345s are 24m rather than the 22m mentioned above

 

[WarrenTManager]

There were two separate refurbs. The retractioning was in the early 2010s, about a decade after the replacement of 3+2 open seating by 2+2 ironing boards (not universally liked, especially by those who had been used to getting a seat and now couldn't), and red paint (to help staff distinguish the contents - cash-cow cattle to be herded- from the customers in the blue trains (to be humoured) and the clients in the white trains (to be cossetted)

The first* AC Traction unit was accepted 31/03/2016. (Actually unit two was accepted first). Then unit 3 on 02/04 and unit 1 on 07/04.

 

[norbitonflyer]

From next week the 701 diagram will change; will work 2U09, 2U16, 2U19, 2U26 as now but will then go to Wimbledon Park Depot. Will the return in the evening to work 2R53, 1815 Waterloo to Waterloo via Twickenham and Brentford.

It's not an exact booked LTP diagram but it means the 701 is covering an entire diagram from this point.

701039 on for the first time since February 5th

 

[hwl]

I know this post was a very long time ago now, somehow my browser decided to put me on this page.
I had no idea that the shorter Aventras are wider, why is this the case, and does it make any noticeable difference or is it fractions of an inch?

About half an inch for each length increment. The older Siemens Desiros have bigger width changes between the lengths.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2024 ==

345s are 24m rather than the 22m mentioned above

Incorrect 345 vehicle lengths are:

End vehicles: 23.62m (inc Dellner coupler which protrudes more than "usual")
Intermediate vehicles: 22.50m
Total unit length = 204.73m which averages at 22.74m per vehicle

The 720/730 "24m" Aventras are:
End vehicles: 24.54m
Intermediate vehicles: 24.21m
The 24m vehicles have 2 extra windows per side compare to the 345s, 1 taking the place of the middle door and the other in the extra length.
Average at 24.34m per vehicle

The 20m Aventra models (they have 1 fewer window / door space per side compared to the 345s):
701:
End vehicles: 20.88m
Intermediate vehicles: 19.90m
Average at 20.09m per vehicle

710:
End vehicles: 21.45m
Intermediate vehicles: 19.99m
Average at 20.57m per vehicle

 

[OneTrackMinded]

701:
End vehicles: 20.88m
Intermediate vehicles: 19.90m
Average at 20.09m per vehicle

710:
End vehicles: 21.45m
Intermediate vehicles: 19.99m
Average at 20.57m per vehicle

Interesting to see the minor length difference between the 701 and 710, I assumed they were identical (excluding the end vehicles because of the intentional shorter cabs on the 701). Thanks as usual for all your data

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2024 ==

-
The new service the 701 should be running this evening: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L61669/2024-07-01/detailed

 

[bramling]

Days like today are exactly why we need the 455s to be retired and replaced by the 701s more than ever. They're borderline unusable in the heat (especially for those with medical conditions), made worse by the fact it seems to get worse every year and lasts longer. Even other members of the fleet don't have particularly good reliability when it comes to cooling.

Aventra AC is known to be some of the most effective on the market so hopefully the wait will be worth it, although there's still no denying we should have got this many years ago...
I do wonder how many more summers South Western commuters will have to put up with this for.

This is a bit dramatic. So far this year we’ve reached July with barely a week of reasonably warm temperatures. Last year we had a hot period in September and that was, er, about it.

The forecast for the next 7 days shows 18 to 21 degrees for the SWR area. That’s hardly desperate-for-air-con territory.

 

[Invincible]

The new service the 701 should be running this evening: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L61669/2024-07-01/detailed

So will the Hounslow loop be mixed 701s and 458/4s (releasing 450s and 458/5s for other services (maybe 455s) or refurbs)?
Gives the chance for Windsor and Shepperton lines to become full 701s services after driver and guard training?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The new service the 701 should be running this evening: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L61669/2024-07-01/detailed

701039 running the first Hounslow service

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2024 ==

As much as this is some sort of progress, until driver training starts/is approved, it's still going to be a while until we see something significant

 

[DMckduck]

Noticed the guards onboard these trains seem to be doing the doors all the way from London to Windsor now, but not on the return part of the journey?

Was this the same on the Hounslow loop one yesterday or did that actually operate as planned?

Surely the random nature of it all is going to lead to mistakes being made.