Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[TEW]

The guard operating the doors throughout on the down Windsor services and the Hounslow Loop service is planned at present.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Apparently there's a "provisional" date for the driver training to start now. Just provisional mind you, and you know what that means in this industry

 

[Snow1964]

Apparently there's a "provisional" date for the driver training to start now. Just provisional mind you, and you know what that means in this industry

There was a published schedule of minimum quantities and dates, (from Oct 2019 to Dec 2020 regarding minimum number of 701s in service) which were at one time in the formal, legally contractual published franchise contract, and look how seriously those dates were taken by SWR.

So give or take about 1700 days late, everything on target.
(and can only attribute about 400 days max to direct effect of covid)

 

[OneTrackMinded]

formal, legally contractual published franchise contract, and look how seriously those dates were taken by SWR.

That's exactly why I think a lot of it has been hush hush for a long time now, clearly there are still legalities going on

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Saw 039 at Feltham in service this morning and 028 on test at Richmond

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Having been on 4 separate journeys with these trains now, I think I'm able to make a personal review on the units.

TLDR: An overall smart, well suited, and thought out commuter product, featuring considerable improvements over the previous fleet and even other modern day offerings.

If you're going to read further, I want to make it clear that, while I'm self aware that my profile picture is a 701, this is in no way bias, and I have criticisms as well as positives.
This is from the perspective of a commuter, not an enthusiast.

Boarding and vestibule:
My first impressions of the unit were positive. First thing you'll notice obviously are the large doors, which make boarding and alighting a lot easier compared to the smaller doors on the older stock.
Stepping onto the train the there's a considerable amount of space in the vestibule, featuring a unique 3 pole setup rather than one or two next to each other (Desiro City), as well as a roof grab rails and double the usual amount of grab handles on each side of the doors. These are all well separated from each other, which reduces what I like to call "bunching", where passengers are bunched up in certain areas squashing everyone together and making it difficult to get on and off. This is aided by the fact that there are large gaps before the seats start (more so than similar commuter trains), allowing those standing more room to spread out.
I also believe that this was a decision made to take full advantage of the aforementioned doors, as some material mentions the ability for people to get on and off at the same time.
In other words, they're great "people soakers" and the impression you usually get during rush hour is reduced considerably.

Ambience:
I really enjoyed the ambience on the train. The industry has been slowly moving towards bright, white, and clinical feeling interiors, which feel blinding and unwelcoming.
However, the 701 does not share this thanks to a few design choices:
1. Grey walls - This is a trick taken out of the 345s book, and really makes a big difference to the feel of the trains. It's a lot more subtle and calming compared the pure white walls that most trains incorporate, and favours the natural light rather than the artificial when it's available.
2. The setup of the lights - Having two light panels rather than one in the centre like on the Desiro City means light is able to spread out more evenly, Also means that shadows aren't cast.
3. Light diffusers

Seating:
I think the seating on this train is quite good for what it's worth. You have to remember the train's role - relatively short commuter trips, and for that it does well, although some portions could have been better
The seats themselves are indeed of the ironing board variety, but an upgraded kind, with better padding and shaping. I've seen mixed thoughts about these - some think they're a big improvement, some think they're the same. I think they're perfectly fine for the journeys they do, although a better seat would have always been welcome. Legroom is fine at least for someone my height (5'9).
The amenities are good too - a plug socket under every seat with two USB ports.
On the rows of 4, there's a mini table. It was sturdy and could fit my laptop nicely. Some say that it should have been a full table, however I think that's an unrealistic expectation on a train carrying out these service duties. That being said I would have liked to have seen tray tables on the normal seats, like 450s and 458s have.
Window alignment isn't great, but it isn't that bad either when you're actually on the train. It's not that difficult to find a seat with some sort of view, and when you do, the windows on the trains are huge, and give you a great view of the countryside... or Hounslow, depends on your ticket fare

Ride quality:
I generally found the units to offer a smooth and comfortable ride, with good sound insulation, although rougher areas of track such as near the Windsor area do make it slightly bumpy.
Acceleration is great, much better than the stock replacing, and I'd say definitely one of the top contenders for the fastest on DC. You can really feel it push you back into your seat in many instances.

Misc:
-The Toilet: 2 per 5 cars, both accessible. It was clean and everything worked as expected. Sensors were in funny places though and it beeps a bit too loudly.
-Air Conditioning: Really good, pleasant, and also at ground level so your feet are cool too.
-Passenger Information Screen: Lots of useful information displayed, better than on lots of other Aventras (scrolls as well). Although still quite glitchy + TFL Rail is mentioned.

 

[Dan G]

That's exactly why I think a lot of it has been hush hush for a long time now, clearly there are still legalities going on

Makes sense

 

[Goldfish62]

Having been on 4 separate journeys with these trains now, I think I'm able to make a personal review on the units.

TLDR: An overall smart, well suited, and thought out commuter product, featuring considerable improvements over the previous fleet and even other modern day offerings.

If you're going to read further, I want to make it clear that, while I'm self aware that my profile picture is a 701, this is in no way bias, and I have criticisms as well as positives.
This is from the perspective of a commuter, not an enthusiast.

Boarding and vestibule:
My first impressions of the unit were positive. First thing you'll notice obviously are the large doors, which make boarding and alighting a lot easier compared to the smaller doors on the older stock.
Stepping onto the train the there's a considerable amount of space in the vestibule, featuring a unique 3 pole setup rather than one or two next to each other (Desiro City), as well as a roof grab rails and double the usual amount of grab handles on each side of the doors. These are all well separated from each other, which reduces what I like to call "bunching", where passengers are bunched up in certain areas squashing everyone together and making it difficult to get on and off. This is aided by the fact that there are large gaps before the seats start (more so than similar commuter trains), allowing those standing more room to spread out.
I also believe that this was a decision made to take full advantage of the aforementioned doors, as some material mentions the ability for people to get on and off at the same time.
In other words, they're great "people soakers" and the impression you usually get during rush hour is reduced considerably.

Ambience:
I really enjoyed the ambience on the train. The industry has been slowly moving towards bright, white, and clinical feeling interiors, which feel blinding and unwelcoming.
However, the 701 does not share this thanks to a few design choices:
1. Grey walls - This is a trick taken out of the 345s book, and really makes a big difference to the feel of the trains. It's a lot more subtle and calming compared the pure white walls that most trains incorporate, and favours the natural light rather than the artificial when it's available.
2. The setup of the lights - Having two light panels rather than one in the centre like on the Desiro City means light is able to spread out more evenly, Also means that shadows aren't cast.
3. Light diffusers

Seating:
I think the seating on this train is quite good for what it's worth. You have to remember the train's role - relatively short commuter trips, and for that it does well, although some portions could have been better
The seats themselves are indeed of the ironing board variety, but an upgraded kind, with better padding and shaping. I've seen mixed thoughts about these - some think they're a big improvement, some think they're the same. I think they're perfectly fine for the journeys they do, although a better seat would have always been welcome. Legroom is fine at least for someone my height (5'9).
The amenities are good too - a plug socket under every seat with two USB ports.
On the rows of 4, there's a mini table. It was sturdy and could fit my laptop nicely. Some say that it should have been a full table, however I think that's an unrealistic expectation on a train carrying out these service duties. That being said I would have liked to have seen tray tables on the normal seats, like 450s and 458s have.
Window alignment isn't great, but it isn't that bad either when you're actually on the train. It's not that difficult to find a seat with some sort of view, and when you do, the windows on the trains are huge, and give you a great view of the countryside... or Hounslow, depends on your ticket fare

Ride quality:
I generally found the units to offer a smooth and comfortable ride, with good sound insulation, although rougher areas of track such as near the Windsor area do make it slightly bumpy.
Acceleration is great, much better than the stock replacing, and I'd say definitely one of the top contenders for the fastest on DC. You can really feel it push you back into your seat in many instances.

Misc:
-The Toilet: 2 per 5 cars, both accessible. It was clean and everything worked as expected. Sensors were in funny places though and it beeps a bit too loudly.
-Air Conditioning: Really good, pleasant, and also at ground level so your feet are cool too.
-Passenger Information Screen: Lots of useful information displayed, better than on lots of other Aventras (scrolls as well). Although still quite glitchy + TFL Rail is mentioned.

Great review and I concur with everything you say. Personally I cannot wait for these trains to enter service properly and I think they will go down very well with passengers.

 

[MotCO]

You can really feel it push you back into your seat in many instances.

If you're in a backward facing seat, do you get propelled out of your seat?

 

[Goldfish62]

Reported on Facebook by someone who appears to be close to the action that as a result of the trial training is to be extended from 9 to 10 days and that the tweaks are close to being finalised. That could mean anything of course.

 

[Bigfoot]

Reported on Facebook by someone who appears to be close to the action that as a result of the trial training is to be extended from 9 to 10 days and that the tweaks are close to being finalised. That could mean anything of course.

'Real' courses will be starting soon now the trial course has been completed and reviewed. Managers that were booked on courses have had them cancelled and are unable to rebook. Mainline will be taking priority.

 

[Goldfish62]

'Real' courses will be starting soon now the trial course has been completed and reviewed. Managers that were booked on courses have had them cancelled and are unable to rebook. Mainline will be taking priority.

Thanks for the update.

So sounds like Windsor is no longer the first line to get them?

 

[swr444]

Thanks for the update.

So sounds like Windsor is no longer the first line to get them?

Probably want to get them onto the Epsom services as they suffer with severe overcrowding, the 458/4s will help with the stopgap on the Windsor side for now if that’s the case.

 

[TEW]

Thanks for the update.

So sounds like Windsor is no longer the first line to get them?

The next few diagrams should be on Windsor before moving on to other lines, probably Shepperton next.

 

[Goldfish62]

The next few diagrams should be on Windsor before moving on to other lines, probably Shepperton next.

Thanks.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Probably want to get them onto the Epsom services as they suffer with severe overcrowding, the 458/4s will help with the stopgap on the Windsor side for now if that’s the case.

How ironic, seeing as those are the services whose frequency they halved.

 

[Goldfish62]

'Real' courses will be starting soon now the trial course has been completed and reviewed. Managers that were booked on courses have had them cancelled and are unable to rebook. Mainline will be taking priority.

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical but I do wonder if the sudden urgency is due to senior management trying to prove themselves because they still want jobs when SWR moves over to OLR.

 

[Bigfoot]

Thanks for the update.

So sounds like Windsor is no longer the first line to get them?

By mainline I mean one of the three types of driver on SWR,

Driver Manager
Depot Drivers
And
Mainline Drivers

Everyone knows the Windsor side lines out of Waterloo at least as far as Queenstown Road, and in theory Clapham.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

'Real' courses will be starting soon now the trial course has been completed and reviewed. Managers that were booked on courses have had them cancelled and are unable to rebook. Mainline will be taking priority.

Good to hear. Not so much for those managers though

 

[Goldfish62]

By mainline I mean one of the three types of driver on SWR,

Driver Manager
Depot Drivers
And
Mainline Drivers

Everyone knows the Windsor side lines out of Waterloo at least as far as Queenstown Road, and in theory Clapham.

Thanks - got it.

 

[3973EXL]

701010

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 0854 Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 08/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 0854 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 08/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[SWT_USER]

The next few diagrams should be on Windsor before moving on to other lines, probably Shepperton next.

In terms of quick entry to service Windsor is presumably easier as there isn't much interworking with other services and not that many diagrams compared to main line 455 operated services.

I think just about every service group thinks they should have priority as SWR have cut everything to the bone. Hopefully the election being over has focused a few minds.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Hopefully the election being over has focused a few minds.

Won't be long now until SWR is over completely in May...

 

[SWT_USER]

Won't be long now until SWR is over completely in may...

Yes exactly - and some more money to be saved in getting rid of some of the management who have overseen the 701 debacle

 

[pompeyfan]

Yes exactly - and some more money to be saved in getting rid of some of the management who have overseen the 701 debacle

To be replaced by another team to oversee the continued introduction of the 701s? It won’t be an overnight thing, even if they do suddenly start entering service in a timely fashion.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes exactly - and some more money to be saved in getting rid of some of the management who have overseen the 701 debacle

Ah, now that Labour are in we can completely ignore employment laws?

 

[SWT_USER]

To be replaced by another team to oversee the continued introduction of the 701s? It won’t be an overnight thing, even if they do suddenly start entering service in a timely fashion.

That's no bad thing. It's clear whoever has currently been in charge hasn't been up to the job so someone new to take control of the situation may help.

Ah, now that Labour are in we can completely ignore employment laws?

Employment laws don't stop you making people redundant, and I would assume SWR have a process for managing out under performing employees.

 

[43096]

Employment laws don't stop you making people redundant, and I would assume SWR have a process for managing out under performing employees.

The problem is at senior level which needs WorstGroup to have a grip on their business to make those decisions. They clearly don’t and there’s also a shortage of rising taken to fill the gaps if you get rid of the incompetents.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ah, now that Labour are in we can completely ignore employment laws?

I'm very puzzled by this statement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2024 ==

That's no bad thing. It's clear whoever has currently been in charge hasn't been up to the job so someone new to take control of the situation may help.

Just a reminder that back in January SWR stated that training would start immediately and the entire fleet would be in service in 12-8 months time. Look at where we are 6 months down the line.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm very puzzled by this statement.

I’m just querying (it wasn’t a statement), the earlier proposition that because there’s been a change of government SWR managers will suddenly be sacked.