Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[43096]

I guess some minor changes to the timetable are likely; but for those that use the service would you prefer:

1) a slightly quicker end to end journey time (noting that the average suburban passenger journey is rather less than the end to end journey)
2) Greater Anglia levels of performance and reliability for all users?

Both. There has been plenty of padding addd in recent years - the Reading service runs on the old leaf-fall timetable 12 months per year now (a WorstGroup “improvement”) - with no discernible performance improvement. All that it seems to do is encourage sloppy operating - the whole organisation needs ripping apart and the issues addressed properly.

 

[Snow1964]

Both. There has been plenty of padding addd in recent years - the Reading service runs on the old leaf-fall timetable 12 months per year now (a WorstGroup “improvement”) - with no discernible performance improvement. All that it seems to do is encourage sloppy operating - the whole organisation needs ripping apart and the issues addressed properly.

Lots and lots of padding.

Just looked up an old timetable (last Southern Railway one, Autumn 1947) for Suburban area, and suburban trains arriving peak hour into Waterloo at peak from 8am were :
07:25 from Hampton Court arrives Waterloo 08:00 (35 minutes)
06;42 from Reading (with via Frimley , joining Ascot) arr 08:02 (1hr20)
06:52 from Horsham (Dorking 07:18) arr 08:03 (1 hour 11 min)
07:13 from Guildford via Cobham arr 08:05 (54m)
Kingston loop (Teddington 07:35) arr 08:08 (33m)
07:39 from Chessington South arr 08:11 (32m)
07:11 from Weybridge via Virgina Water arr 08:12 (1h 1m)
0716 from Windsor arr 08:12 (56m)
Kingston loop (Strawberry Hill 07:44) arr 08:14 (28m)
07:43 from Hampton Court arr 08:17 (34m)
07:30 from Shepperton arr 08:20 (50m)
07:38 from Twickenham via Whitton 07:40 arr 08:22 (44m)
07:44 from Shepperton via Richmond arr 08:24 (40m)

Looking at today's (very slow) timetable with similar arrivals from 8am

Hampton Court 40 minutes +14% (+18% on 34m train)
Reading 1h 27min (but not joining at Ascot) +9%
Dorking (no direct Horsham) 57 minutes +27%
Guildford via Cobham 1 hr 4min +18%
Teddington 39m +18%
Chessington South 39m +22%
Windsor 58m (but not joining at Staines) +4%
Strawberry Hill (46m) +64%
Shepperton via Kingston 56m +12%
Whitton via Hounslow 50m +14%
Shepperton via Richmond 1h 3m +58%

So generally padding has added 12-27% to journeys, some journeys that lost their semi-fast service up 58-64% in time. Where trains used to combine (so time was taken up waiting and joining portions) still slower without the portions being coupled.

 

[PGAT]

Lots and lots of padding.

Just looked up an old timetable (last Southern Railway one, Autumn 1947) for Suburban area, and suburban trains arriving peak hour into Waterloo at peak from 8am were :
07:25 from Hampton Court arrives Waterloo 08:00 (35 minutes)
06;42 from Reading (with via Frimley , joining Ascot) arr 08:02 (1hr20)
06:52 from Horsham (Dorking 07:18) arr 08:03 (1 hour 11 min)
07:13 from Guildford via Cobham arr 08:05 (54m)
Kingston loop (Teddington 07:35) arr 08:08 (33m)
07:39 from Chessington South arr 08:11 (32m)
07:11 from Weybridge via Virgina Water arr 08:12 (1h 1m)
0716 from Windsor arr 08:12 (56m)
Kingston loop (Strawberry Hill 07:44) arr 08:14 (28m)
07:43 from Hampton Court arr 08:17 (34m)
07:30 from Shepperton arr 08:20 (50m)
07:38 from Twickenham via Whitton 07:40 arr 08:22 (44m)
07:44 from Shepperton via Richmond arr 08:24 (40m)

Looking at today's (very slow) timetable with similar arrivals from 8am

Hampton Court 40 minutes +14% (+18% on 34m train)
Reading 1h 27min (but not joining at Ascot) +9%
Dorking (no direct Horsham) 57 minutes +27%
Guildford via Cobham 1 hr 4min +18%
Teddington 39m +18%
Chessington South 39m +22%
Windsor 58m (but not joining at Staines) +4%
Strawberry Hill (46m) +64%
Shepperton via Kingston 56m +12%
Whitton via Hounslow 50m +14%
Shepperton via Richmond 1h 3m +58%

So generally padding has added 12-27% to journeys, some journeys that lost their semi-fast service up 58-64% in time. Where trains used to combine (so time was taken up waiting and joining portions) still slower without the portions being coupled.

Much of that would be down to longer modern dwell times from increased passenger numbers, squeezing more people onto less trains and higher safety standards. I’m not sure you could call that padding because that implies the time could be made up

 

[43096]

Much of that would be down to longer modern dwell times from increased passenger numbers, squeezing more people onto less trains and higher safety standards. I’m not sure you could call that padding because that implies the time could be made up

But it shows how the service has gone backwards, with people spending more time travelling for the same journey distance.

 

[Snow1964]

Much of that would be down to longer modern dwell times from increased passenger numbers, squeezing more people onto less trains and higher safety standards. I’m not sure you could call that padding because that implies the time could be made up

But any extra dwell time is partly offset by faster more powerful trains (2x 4SUB was 2000-2200 HP, and could barely exceed 60mph, a 701 is 5364HP), a voltage increase from 660v to 750v, disc brakes with higher braking rates and anti-lock, so actual running time (rather than dwell time) should be down.

On a journey with a dozen stations, might be adding 30-60 seconds to dwell each station, but running time between stations will be down 20-30 seconds (maybe 30-50 seconds with 701s) so other 5 minutes added must be padding.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Like it or not, the suburban part of the timetable can not be re written completely in isolation without some impact on the Main Fast lines, largely, but not exclusively, Guildford/Woking inwards towards Waterloo.

There can't be many conflicts, as all junctions from Woking inwards are grade separated. The principal conflict is actually at Woking, where trains terminating at/ starting from there use the bay platform, and have to cross the fast lines to eneter and leave it.
Local services to/from Guildford, whether via Epsom or Cobham, use platform 1 and can access the New Line at Guildford without conflict with any other services (in particular those to and from Woking), so the only conflict is with the handful of Portsmouth line services which use the New Line.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There can't be many conflicts,

They are limited in number (or should I say were) as I am not familiar with the current timetable detail, but pre covid, pre SWR, peak time suburban/outer suburban services crossed between slow and fast lines, both UP and DOWN at Surbiton (Berrylands as such in the planned sense) and New Malden, the latter often used in an emergency scenario. Waterloo throat was another area that could produce the necessity for inter-route cooperation, both in planning and on the day in Wimbledon ASC. As said, perhaps not that often, but when planned, done so because other alternatives had been exhausted.

It is of course possible that any TT revisions SWR make in the future, they may well try to remove any remaining conflicts and effectively separate suburban from main line completely (base plan wise). A very noble idea, in an ideal world, but rarely possible in entirety.

 

[mansonlo49]

Haven’t seen a 701 drag to Long Marston for a while already

 

[Bikeman78]

I guess some minor changes to the timetable are likely; but for those that use the service would you prefer:

1) a slightly quicker end to end journey time (noting that the average suburban passenger journey is rather less than the end to end journey)
2) Greater Anglia levels of performance and reliability for all users?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2025 ==

The two are not mutually exclusive. The routes through Broxbourne did not have much slack, aside from Stansted Express. The other services had to get a move on to keep out of the way. The Hertford schedules were particularly challenging but they usually managed to keep within a minute of two of schedule. I expect it's a lot easier with class 720s. The point is, it rarely fell apart with class 317s. When it did, it was down to trees on the line, or bin bags in the OHL.

 

[Invincible]

I did think keeping up the one new diagram per week for much longer was too much to expect given all the previous problems introducing the trains. Oh well. Wonder long this latest hiatus will last.

So if still one diagram a week, how long till all the 455 and perhaps 458s are replaced.
Guess there will be some 701s left to release 450s to be converted to battery?

 

[Snow1964]

So if still one diagram a week, how long till all the 455 and perhaps 458s are replaced.
Guess there will be some 701s left to release 450s to be converted to battery?

There are 75 trains (10car equivalent)

Around 64 will be needed each day (not sure of exact number as SWR regularly makes minor tweaks to timetable), and some services should convert from 450s or 458s so should they be counted too.

One a week added to those already in service is around September 2026 (or about June 2026 if just counting 10car units).
In reality I can forsee the 5car units not being in service until at least Easter, then drifting into use summer 2026

 

[Covshire1]

Does anyone know the unit(s) being moved on 5Q76 1618 Bicester Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs this afternoon? TIA

 

[Pippy1505]

Does anyone know the unit(s) being moved on 5Q76 1618 Bicester Mod Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs this afternoon? TIA

701040

 

[mansonlo49]

701040

040？think this been stored since june 2023

 

[FRSZMZ56]

Looks like this driver (or guard?) didn’t get the memo. Not actually sure who is responsible here for the early departures

And now it is now stuck at Epsom with a door fault (701018)

 

[swt_passenger]

It is of course possible that any TT revisions SWR make in the future, they may well try to remove any remaining conflicts and effectively separate suburban from main line completely (base plan wise). A very noble idea, in an ideal world, but rarely possible in entirety.

In broad terms, (at least according to the 2015 route study), Crossrail 2 if built would separate out those 6 or 7 tph that presently switch from slow to fast near Surbiton, (and vice versa), and leave them to run on the slows. The freed up paths on the fasts would then be available for longer distance trains. But I suspect they’d still have to get rid of the Woking P3 conflicts.

 

[matt]

Just a reminder that this thread is for Class 701 introductions, discussions on the SWR timetable are more suited at another thread

 

[London Trains]

In broad terms, (at least according to the 2015 route study), Crossrail 2 if built would separate out those 6 or 7 tph that presently switch from slow to fast near Surbiton, (and vice versa), and leave them to run on the slows. The freed up paths on the fasts would then be available for longer distance trains. But I suspect they’d still have to get rid of the Woking P3 conflicts.

Of course the Woking bay conflicts are yet another issue that likely would been fixed if the Woking flyover is ever built - the stoppers can been extended to Guildford, with the bay at Woking demolished or put out of use.

 

[ejx2]

I can't remember if this has been discussed, but is anyone aware of what the rollout plans are for the rest of the routes or if they even exist yet?

 

[mansonlo49]

Anyone seen this thanks? Another 701 to storage

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Anyone seen this thanks? Another 701 to storage

701 520 + 701 522 I believe?

 

[800001]

701 520 + 701 522 I believe?

Correct

 

[mansonlo49]

701 520 + 701 522 I believe?

Thanks, wondering would it be 701/5, as they're mentioned earlier wouldn't be entering service soon

 

[TEW]

Two new 701 diagrams next week.

1D10 0622 Dorking to London Waterloo
1D09 0724 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D18 0831 Dorking to London Waterloo
2M19 0947 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M26 1034 Chessington South to London Waterloo
1D25 1124 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D34 1232 Dorking to London Waterloo
2J35 1336 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J42 1424 Hampton Court to London Waterloo
1D41 1524 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D50 1632 Dorking to London Waterloo
2D51 1739 London Waterloo to Guildford

2R05 0647 Twickenham to London Waterloo
2S15 0752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S24 0933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2S29 1122 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2U43 1503 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U50 1623 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U53 1733 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U60 1853 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2S65 2022 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S74 2203 Weybridge to London Waterloo

 

[FRSZMZ56]

Two new 701 diagrams next week.

They're spoiling us now!

 

[Goldfish62]

Two new 701 diagrams next week.

1D10 0622 Dorking to London Waterloo
1D09 0724 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D18 0831 Dorking to London Waterloo
2M19 0947 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M26 1034 Chessington South to London Waterloo
1D25 1124 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D34 1232 Dorking to London Waterloo
2J35 1336 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J42 1424 Hampton Court to London Waterloo
1D41 1524 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D50 1632 Dorking to London Waterloo
2D51 1739 London Waterloo to Guildford

2R05 0647 Twickenham to London Waterloo
2S15 0752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S24 0933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2S29 1122 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2U43 1503 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U50 1623 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U53 1733 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U60 1853 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2S65 2022 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S74 2203 Weybridge to London Waterloo

Nice one. Makes up for nothing last week.

I was hoping for removal of the last Reading line 455 diagram, which seems to follow me around, but can't have it all!

 

[TEW]

Nice one. Makes up for nothing last week.

I was hoping for removal of the last Reading line 455 diagram, which seems to follow me around, but can't have it all!

Well you're in luck! The Reading 455 diagram this week is booked 8-450 next week.

 

[Goldfish62]

Well you're in luck! The Reading 455 diagram this week is booked 8-450 next week.

Woohoo!

Reverted to what it was pre-May.

 

[Meglos]

Two new 701 diagrams next week.

1D10 0622 Dorking to London Waterloo
1D09 0724 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D18 0831 Dorking to London Waterloo
2M19 0947 London Waterloo to Chessington South
2M26 1034 Chessington South to London Waterloo
1D25 1124 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D34 1232 Dorking to London Waterloo
2J35 1336 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
2J42 1424 Hampton Court to London Waterloo
1D41 1524 London Waterloo to Dorking
1D50 1632 Dorking to London Waterloo
2D51 1739 London Waterloo to Guildford

2R05 0647 Twickenham to London Waterloo
2S15 0752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S24 0933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2S29 1122 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S38 1303 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2U43 1503 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U50 1623 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U53 1733 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U60 1853 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2S65 2022 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S74 2203 Weybridge to London Waterloo

Nice to finally get a daytime Chessington South service. Up to now we've been stuck with the last service only, which is effectively a way of moving a train into Wimbledon Park Depot.

 

[adc82140]

We must be near the point where 701 diagrams outnumber 455 diagrams....