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Class 67 Locomotive Questions.

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norbitonflyer

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True, but some locos (e.g. some of the Deltics) lasted even less time, although they probably racked up a good few more miles than some of the 67s.
The Deltics lasted 20 years in total.

25 years is actually fairly average. There are plenty of classes that were completely extinct within a much shorter timescale

Most of the menagerie of small shunters introduced in the mid-fifties were gone in half that time, many of them without getting TOPS classes, let alone numbers. Of those that did get TOPS classes only Classes 01, 05, 06 (one example of each), and 03 had any examples left in service 25 years after introduction.

Of the larger classes, only classes 08, 09, 20, 31, 37, 47, 56, 59 , 60, 66, 67, 73, 86 and 87 are older than 25 years

Of classes that are now fully withdrawn from regular use, only five classes had any members survive more than 27 years after introduction: classes 76 (30 years), 81 and 85 (both 31 years) and 26 and 33 (both 37 years)

Most first generation DMUs were gone within 30 years, many much less.

A major factor in all this was of course the late-50s Modernisation Plan followed only a few years later by the Beeching cuts, resulting in a large number of trains becoming redundant almost as soon as they had been built (as well as hastening the end of steam - the 9Fs were intended to have a 40-year working life.

When I started spotting in the early 70s, Class 20s and 31s were already seen as old-fashioned, despite being only about 15 years old. Indeed, the BR fleet had an appearance of permanency around that time no genuinley new classes of loco or unit, other than experimental prototypes, were introduced between the Class 50s and 4VEPs in 1967, and the Class 87s in 1973.
 
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Harlequinuk

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The Deltics lasted 20 years in total.

25 years is actually fairly average. There are plenty of classes that were completely extinct within a much shorter timescale

Most of the menagerie of small shunters introduced in the mid-fifties were gone in half that time, many of them without getting TOPS classes, let alone numbers. Of those that did get TOPS classes only Classes 01, 05, 06 (one example of each), and 03 had any examples left in service 25 years after introduction.

Of the larger classes, only classes 08, 09, 20, 31, 37, 47, 56, 59 , 60, 66, 67, 73, 86 and 87 are older than 25 years

Of classes that are now fully withdrawn from regular use, only classes 10, 11, 25, 26, 27, 33, 40, 45, 50, 76, 81, 82, 83 and 85 had any members survive more than 25 years after introduction, and of those, only 26, 33, 76, 81 and 85 lasted more than a further two years. (respctively 37, 37, 30, 31 and 31 years)

Class 71 lasted 19 years, Class 74 lasted 9 . CC1 (Bulleid booster) ran for 29 years, CC2 for 23 years and 20003 for 20 years. Would have been the Class 70 *Hornby*under TOPS and at least one did get a repaint to BR Blue.
 

37052 xb mr

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Thought 026 was getting new bogies (from 019/030 at Toton?)

Bogies have gone to Crewe
For further use

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Anyone know the condition and status of the five 67s at CE?

001 was last used as depot shunter
18 months or so, best of them.
026 TFW owned as mentioned still intact as AFAIK, rest been stood a long time but again AFAIK still intact.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

That was this August
 

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Richard Scott

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Of classes that are now fully withdrawn from regular use, only five classes had any members survive more than 27 years after introduction: classes 76 (30 years), 81 and 85 (both 31 years) and 26 and 33 (both 37 years)
Sorry to be pedantic (and this one is quite pedantic) but 45s technically lasted longer then 27 years, as 45106 lasted in 1989, 28 years after introduction of the class.
 

Richard Scott

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Sorry, I missed that one.
Just realised I made a mistake, 45s were introduced in 1960, not 1961, so may be a few were in service longer than 27 years?
Just had a thought, apart from 40122 would a couple of the 40s kept on for Crewe station remodelling and numbered in 974xx series have made it past 27 years so maybe 40s could be added to the list?
 
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Richard Scott

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My understanding was that TfW bought 26 just for spares, unless plans have changed. 28 was the better condition of the two they bought and that is in working order.
I thought one was for spares too.
 

ic31420

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My understanding was that TfW bought 26 just for spares, unless plans have changed. 28 was the better condition of the two they bought and that is in working order.

What's the sense in TfW owning one... or even two?

Id understand if they made a play for them all, as a start to owning all they need, but one just seems a bit of a faff and puts them over a barrel to DB for maintenance and parts.
 
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What's the sense in TfW owning one... or even two?

Id understand if they made a play for them all, as a start to owning all they need, but one just seems a bit of a faff and puts them over a barrel to DB for maintenance and parts.

Dunno, but they are a public entity so you can put in a FOI request and ask them why they bought those two locos if you want!
 

37052 xb mr

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67028 is now Cardiff Thunderbird
Rescue & Training loco
Which frees on of the main pool locos up from doing it, so means an extra 67s available for service use,
Ever little helps !
 
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True, but some locos (e.g. some of the Deltics) lasted even less time, although they probably racked up a good few more miles than some of the 67s.

67019 and 30 had, so far as I know, never been repainted - can't be many locos (other than accident damaged) which are scrapped still carrying their original paint job!
67008, if you're interested, is on 1.23 Million miles.
 

Richard Scott

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67008, if you're interested, is on 1.23 Million miles.
Not much for a 25 year old loco. Many Westerns achieved more than that in service and 45s, which were around 25 years old when withdrawn, on 2 million plus.
Definitely an underutilised fleet. Any mileages known for other class members?
 

norbitonflyer

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Just realised I made a mistake, 45s were introduced in 1960, not 1961, so may be a few were in service longer than 27 years?
Just had a thought, apart from 40122 would a couple of the 40s kept on for Crewe station remodelling and numbered in 974xx series have made it past 27 years so maybe 40s could be added to the list?
You're quite right - the last withdrwal of a 45 was 45106 in 1989
As for the 40s, indeed 97405 (ex 40060) was the last, in 1987. Evenn that was beaten by celebrity 40122 which was not withdrawn until 1988, but it was not in general use by then.

I've amended the post to put the limit at 30 years. In any case, it is the last withdrawal I was listing, whereas in the 67s it is the first.

If we look at that instead,

We see that of
996 class 08s built, only 962 were still around when TOPS numbers were allocated twenty years later (this includes the six converted to Class 13s)
Only 122 of the 230 Class 03s got TOPS numbers, although even the oldest member of the class was only 16 years old at the time. (53%)

Other diesel classes depleted by the 25 year mark (I am not including classes which were intact other than accident losses, and anything in departmental use is not counted as withdrawn)

Class 24 - 150 gone from a fleet of 151 by 1983 (99%)
Class 46 - 54 from a fleet of 56 by 1986 (96%)
Class 50 - 47 from a fleet of 50 by 1992 (94%)
Class 25 - 304 from a fleet of 327 by 1986 (93%)
Class 40 - 150 from a fleet of 200 by 1983 (75%)
Class 27 - 45 from a fleet of 66 by 1986 (68%)
Class 56 - 69 from a fleet of 150 by 2002 (46%)
Class 45 - 43 from a fleet of 127 by 1985 (34%)
Class 26 - 7 from a fleet of 46 by 1983 (15%)
Class 31 - 24 from a fleet of 263 by 1982 (9%)
Class 20 - 16 withdrawn from a fleet of 228 by 1982 (7%)

So Class 67 - only three two scrapped from a fleet of 30 in 25 years (7% 10%) is actually pretty good going.
 
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Not much for a 25 year old loco. Many Westerns achieved more than that in service and 45s, which were around 25 years old when withdrawn, on 2 million plus.
Definitely an underutilised fleet. Any mileages known for other class members?
I've got a few
67005 - 565K
67010 - 250k
67012 - 190k
While these are quite low, these figures have presumably been taken since its last engine overhaul.
 

Richard Scott

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I've got a few
67005 - 565K
67010 - 250k
67012 - 190k
While these are quite low, these figures have presumably been taken since its last engine overhaul.
Ok, thanks. Didn't realise any had received any form of overhaul.
 

Richard Scott

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They aren’t going to be running on bogies that haven’t been overhauled for 20 years.
I guessed bogies would be changed but, must admit, thought engines hadn't been touched. Was more implying an overhaul such as used to be done at works.
I know, even then, some components were often swapped before next overhaul.
 
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I've got a few
67005 - 565K
67010 - 250k
67012 - 190k
While these are quite low, these figures have presumably been taken since its last engine overhaul.

Those figures must be since overhaul - 67012 is likely to be one of the highest in the fleet in terms of lifetime mileage, given that it's been regularly used on passenger work for quite a few years (Wrexham & Shropshire, Chiltern, Arriva Trains Wales, Transport for Wales).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

So Class 67 - only two withdrawn from a fleet of 30 in 25 years (7%) is actually pretty good going.

Three actually - 67003 was scrapped earlier this year.

Also worth noting that some have been stored for many years, e.g. 67019 was stored since 2015, so it only really had 15 years in not-very-intensive use. Some others have also been stored for quite a number of years.
 
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ED73

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Does anyone know if 67009 is visible from anywhere at the moment please?

It’s the last one I need to see.
I had the same problem. It's still at the back of CE as far as I'm aware. You can just about see it from Victoria Avenue, but you might want to wait until the leaves come down...
 
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Those figures must be since overhaul - 67012 is likely to be one of the highest in the fleet in terms of lifetime mileage, given that it's been regularly used on passenger work for quite a few years (Wrexham & Shropshire, Chiltern, Arriva Trains Wales, Transport for Wales).
Yes as I mentioned some of those figures will have been since overhaul/engine overhauls. The data was taken from the EM2000
 

Robin Edwards

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In the same vein as the query about 67009, is 67011 visible at all?
I know these two have in the past been found together behind the shed but access and visibility is somewhat restricted. 67011 has also been used as depot shunter from time to time and I've seen it from passing trains to Chester.
 
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