class 60 versus class 66

[Tin Rocket]

What are the arguments in favour of class 66's and 60's and the arguments against the use of 66's and 60's by TOCs/freight operators?

 

[The Planner]

What are the arguments in favour of class 66's and 60's and the arguments against the use of 66's and 60's by TOCs/freight operators?

Unless its a 66/6 then they are useless at pulling the weights that 60s can.

 

[TGVDUDE]

i personally prefer 60's to 66's but in hauling terms i don't mind

 

[devon_metro]

Its worth noting that DBS own all the class 60s, whereas all of the 66s are leased.

 

[37402]

60s are expensive to maintain and unreliable in comparison to 66s.

It is also worth noting that the number of 60s we have in traffic now (14) is the number of diagrams that ACTUALLY NEED the superior pulling power of a 60 rather than are a 60 'just to make the numbers up' because there is nowt else available.

 

[Phoenix]

Just a general question for all does anyone agree that the 60's are the "best freight loco this country has built" ?
I am undecided but a few people claim this to be true just seeing what you lot think.

 

[ungreat]

Having driven 60's I would say no...best freight locos? a pair of 20's IMHO..keep going,hardly ever went wrong..closely followed by a 47 and then a 56.Just a driver's point of view though

 

[The Planner]

60s are expensive to maintain and unreliable in comparison to 66s.

It is also worth noting that the number of 60s we have in traffic now (14) is the number of diagrams that ACTUALLY NEED the superior pulling power of a 60 rather than are a 60 'just to make the numbers up' because there is nowt else available.

Id beg to differ, hauling Kingsbury oil tank trains with a class 66 with 3000 tonnes behind you doesnt offer the most robust performance, especially when you see the mini beach it tries to create when it loses traction. Not good when it ends up in pointwork.

 

[37402]

Id beg to differ, hauling Kingsbury oil tank trains with a class 66 with 3000 tonnes behind you doesnt offer the most robust performance, especially when you see the mini beach it tries to create when it loses traction. Not good when it ends up in pointwork.

I'm not quite sure which part of my previous post you are commenting about, however in reply to yours...

On a personal note, I agree. However, at the end of the day (this applies to any company interested in the bottom line not just DBS), it has been proven that a 66 can keep to time (just about, the 'no notch 8' rule having been disregarded) on load 30 so why incur the increased cost of maintaining a 60 for something that a 66 can do...? In times like these, it may be that the reduced costs of maintaining locos (60 v 66) can be passed onto the customer thereby giving them an incentive for keeping traffic moving by rail...

 

[thefab444]

can be passed onto the customer thereby giving them an incentive for keeping traffic moving by rail...

Judging by the rate at which DBS are loosing work to other operators, this isn't happening.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

When dealing with the pros and cons of a 60 and a 66 it is clear that the 66 has many more advantages, hence the reason why there are more of them on our network, doing a wide range of tasks. I am not against the 60's by any means, great locos they are.

Class 60:

Pros:
Sheer muscle stregnth, very good for hauling heavy freight - eg/stone, metals, petrol etc.

Cons:
Costly to run.
Require regular maintenance.
Not as reliable as a 66.
Decline in use.


Class 66

Pros:
Newer than class 60 - modern design.
Very reliable.
Not as expensive to maintain.
Useful for a variety of tasks, from regualr freight, nuclear flasks, underground work, engineering, passenger working and banking -indeed the 66/6 is capable of hauling heavy freight.
Some produce lower emissions than a 60 - eg: 66/9

Cons:
Well documented problems with the cab, regarding poor air con, noise, and comfort.

 

[43021HST]

The class 60 looks better it makes a better sound and it was made in britain. The class 66 looks plain it makes a non distictive sound and it was made in canada thus it is a rubbish engine

 

[Kneedown]

Speaking as a Driver who was trained on pretty much everything in the East Mid's during the late 80's early 90's, i'd have to say that 60's were the best thing since sliced bread. Nice and comfy, warm, decent stove that didn't take all shift to heat up, quiet, and the only loco that, with 42 HAA on, would get you up to the rapid loader at Bentinck Colliery first time without having to take an almighty great run at it.
I can't remember ever failing with a 60.

20's were ok. People say they kept going no matter what because there are two of them, but the argument doesn't really hold up on the routes we drove because the gradients were quite steep and when at full whack one of the pair would often overload, and if you didn't shut off quick and open up again you'd come to a stand. Darn uncomfortable rattly things as well.

58's were comfy, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding and they'd slip in the Sahara desert, partially because the sandpipes were too narrow and clogged up easily.
The dashboard had a tendency to fall off when going along as well.

56's, now they were my favorites! Good looking, phenominal sound, and i always found them pretty reliable too, and although a fitter might disagree with me, i preferred the Romanian ones which seemed to pick up power a lot quicker than the BREL ones. Only downside was that due to a stepped brake handle with set notches, rather than the infinitely variable one on a 58 or 60, it was a bit of a pavlova loading in collieries on slow speed. You'd have to hold a little brake on to stop the train running away, but as the train loaded up and the weight increased gradually, you needed a bit more, but the next notch was a little too much, so you had to constantly play with the brake to stop the slow speed unit going mad! Brake changeover cock was in an awkward place on the Romanians as well.
I'd forgive them anything though, it used to make my day being routed main line at Tapton and opening them up as i hit Chesterfield with a big blast on the horn to annouce to the passengers that they were about to be showered with a load of blowing coal dust!

Never learnt 66's, got out of Toton before that, but from what my colleagues say i'm mighty glad i've never been near one!

 

[34067James]

Cant they use the class 59 for 60 workings as I heard they are the most powerfull diesel in the UK?

I like both the 60 & 66 I am happy to see either a 60 or 66 then any unit.

Speaking as a Driver who was trained on pretty much everything in the East Mid's during the late 80's early 90's, i'd have to say that 60's were the best thing since sliced bread. Nice and comfy, warm, decent stove that didn't take all shift to heat up, quiet, and the only loco that, with 42 HAA on, would get you up to the rapid loader at Bentinck Colliery first time without having to take an almighty great run at it.
I can't remember ever failing with a 60.

20's were ok. People say they kept going no matter what because there are two of them, but the argument doesn't really hold up on the routes we drove because the gradients were quite steep and when at full whack one of the pair would often overload, and if you didn't shut off quick and open up again you'd come to a stand. Darn uncomfortable rattly things as well.

58's were comfy, but couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding and they'd slip in the Sahara desert, partially because the sandpipes were too narrow and clogged up easily.
The dashboard had a tendency to fall off when going along as well.

56's, now they were my favorites! Good looking, phenominal sound, and i always found them pretty reliable too, and although a fitter might disagree with me, i preferred the Romanian ones which seemed to pick up power a lot quicker than the BREL ones. Only downside was that due to a stepped brake handle with set notches, rather than the infinitely variable one on a 58 or 60, it was a bit of a pavlova loading in collieries on slow speed. You'd have to hold a little brake on to stop the train running away, but as the train loaded up and the weight increased gradually, you needed a bit more, but the next notch was a little too much, so you had to constantly play with the brake to stop the slow speed unit going mad! Brake changeover cock was in an awkward place on the Romanians as well.
I'd forgive them anything though, it used to make my day being routed main line at Tapton and opening them up as i hit Chesterfield with a big blast on the horn to annouce to the passengers that they were about to be showered with a load of blowing coal dust!

Never learnt 66's, got out of Toton before that, but from what my colleagues say i'm mighty glad i've never been near one!

What about the class 37's ???

James

 

[33056]

The class 60 looks better it makes a better sound and it was made in britain. The class 66 looks plain it makes a non distictive sound and it was made in canada thus it is a rubbish engine

The engine used in a class 66 is one of the most successful in the world, there are thousands of this type of engine in use worldwide so I hardly think that it merits the description of "rubbish"!

 

[Kneedown]

What about the class 37's ???

James

Had them double headed on the Washwood Heaths before 60's took over, and the evening Calverton normally produced one too as it wasn't an MGR working, but HEA wagons for Coventry, Three Spires i think but i stand to be corrected on that. The McKintyres scrapyard and occasional ballast workings also produced.
What can i say about them? Honest or tactful? Well they were generally reliable and heaps better than a 31, but horrendously uncomfortable if you got an unrefurbished one, the stove took several hours to warm up, if you were at No1 end when the fans kicked in you'd often get a harsh, metal on metal squealing noise that was worse than fingernails on a blackboard, and the blumin handrails were too high so that if you got off one, then a shorty like me had a real chance of not being able to get back on! Happened to a few Drivers, myself included!

Give me a meaty 56 anyday, in fact i think EMT should get some and top and tail em on the Liv - Nor route. Never mind the lack of heat!

 

[Ferret]

Lol at drivers not being able to get back on! That's happened on a certain unit type in recent years with an ECS move - driver got out to talk to the signaller on the SPT but neglected to take his keys with him and the cab door closed behind him! A monumental error!!!

 

[37402]

Lol at drivers not being able to get back on! That's happened on a certain unit type in recent years with an ECS move - driver got out to talk to the signaller on the SPT but neglected to take his keys with him and the cab door closed behind him! A monumental error!!!

Happened at Newcastle to me too, once he finally sourced a spare key, driver was seen rather red faced...! oops!

 

[mbonwick]

Cant they use the class 59 for 60 workings as I heard they are the most powerfull diesel in the UK?

59201 is currently in the Peak Forest area carrying out trials with workings that normally produce a 60.