Class 60 Reinstatement?

[Y961 XBU]

I was just reading on another forum that some Class 60s have been reinstated for Colas Rail them being:

60021
60076
60085
60087

Does anyone know if any more are to be reinstated and what they will get used on?

 

[Freightmaster]

...what they will get used on?

Two are based in South Wales for steel traffic and the others
will be used on workings from Lindsey, with the first contract
being the Preston bitumen working from next month.

There is also talk of class 60s being used on the Baglan Bay
timber train, as the class 56s have been dropping like flies
on that working in recent months!


MARK

 

[Y961 XBU]

Two are based in South Wales for steel traffic and the others
will be used on workings from Lindsey, with the first contract
being the Preston bitumen working from next month.

There is also talk of class 60s being used on the Baglan Bay
timber train, as the class 56s have been dropping like flies
on that working in recent months!


MARK

Thanks for that Information mate, Wheres Lindsey :P

Also been doing some digging and found that the following have been sold to Colas Rail: 002/013/021/026/028/029/033/038/041/046/048/055/056/061/076/085/087/095/096 However the only ones out in service at present at the ones noted in my first post

Another question, Is there any still in use with DB?

 

[Murph]

Another question, Is there any still in use with DB?

I've no idea how accurate it is, but it looks like it's saying it's up to date for Oct 2014:

http://www.tugtracker.co.uk/

 

[Bevan Price]

Yes - DB still have 20+ Class 60 in service, many overhauled in the last year or two. But rather a lot remain in store / neglected at Toton & elsewhere.

 

[Freightmaster]

Wheres Lindsey :P

near Immingham:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Oil_Refinery

DB class 60s are currently used on most trains from Lindsey,
plus trains from nearby Humber refinery, plus the iron ore
'shuttles' from Immingham to Scunthorpe steelworks.

MARK

 

[Y961 XBU]

Thanks for the Information guys!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes - DB still have 20+ Class 60 in service, many overhauled in the last year or two. But rather a lot remain in store / neglected at Toton & elsewhere.

Hopefully one day they will find use for them

 

[bigdelboy]

If you haven't seen it earlier thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1973674 is worth a read.

As a rule of thumb pretty with the odd exception well any class 60 now operational has gone throw the "super 60" overhaul program. Those that are non operational would need to go through that overhaul programme to get operational again; and that is obviously a costly operation. Without going through that overhaul an original class 60 would be pretty much unmaintainable due to some electronic parts on the original 60 being unobtainable.

The more reliable and cost effective the overhauled locomotives are the more likely more will be overhaulled and put to work; subject to work being available. It is probable however a number will never be overhauled.

This post is my opinion only.

The site http://www.tugtracker.co.uk is dedicated to these and contains much info if you are interested.

 

[Y961 XBU]

If you haven't seen it earlier thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1973674 is worth a read.

As a rule of thumb pretty with the odd exception well any class 60 now operational has gone throw the "super 60" overhaul program. Those that are non operational would need to go through that overhaul programme to get operational again; and that is obviously a costly operation. Without going through that overhaul an original class 60 would be pretty much unmaintainable due to some electronic parts on the original 60 being unobtainable.

The more reliable and cost effective the overhauled locomotives are the more likely more will be overhaulled and put to work; subject to work being available. It is probable however a number will never be overhauled.

This post is my opinion only.

The site http://www.tugtracker.co.uk is dedicated to these and contains much info if you are interested.

Thanks again
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to double check, 20 Class 60s are with Colas and 80 are with DB?

 

[Jamesb1974]

Just to double check, 20 Class 60s are with Colas and 80 are with DB?

I think Colas only took 10 x 60s off DBS (?)

The remaining 90 still belong to DB, with (if Tugtracker.co.uk is correct) 64 stored and 26 operational, of those only 3 NOT being 'Super 60s'.

Unlike 66s and 67s (which are leased), the 60s are the property of DB.

 

[158722]

Also been doing some digging and found that the following have been sold to Colas Rail: 002/013/021/026/028/029/033/038/041/046/048/055/056/061/076/085/087/095/096 However the only ones out in service at present at the ones noted in my first post

Another question, Is there any still in use with DB?

Only 10 sold to Colas - for now - 60002/021/026/047/056/076/085/087/095/096, of which the four mentioned in the OP are back in traffic after overhaul with 60002/096/026 expected next, then the other trio. The other 10 locos noted above were on the for sale list, but the gen is that the sale has not gone through, but it may once the first 10 have been overhauled.

Of the DBS ones, 27 are nominally in traffic, namely
60001/007/010/011/015/017/019/020/024/035/039/040/044/049/054/059/062/063/065/066/071/074/079/091/092/099/100.
However, refurbished 60007 and 60066 are both OOU at Toton with bogie and collision damage respectively, whilst unrefurbished 60035/065/071 plus Doncaster shunter 60049 are all expected to be stood down soon as their permitted hours of 20,000 come up. 60035 is over that now, 60049 on 19980, 60071 on 19450ish whilst 60065 is on 16670ish. 60011 & 60099 were both subject to varying levels of work prior to the full refurbishment program, with the former receiving a refurbished power unit earlier this year and thus on very low hours, whilst '099 has special dispensation to run beyond the 20K hours limit (it is on 25700+ now!) as it received extra power unit attention. So, today DBS have 25 active 60s, one of which is restricted to pilot work and expected to be stopped very soon (60049), as is 60035.

 

[ExRes]

The other 10 locos mentioned by Y961 XBU, 60013/28/29/33/38/41/46/48/55/61 are shown on Tugtracker as being in a pool of their own, WQDA, which would certainly seem to indicate that they are considered separate from the rest of the DBS fleet

 

[CosherB]

we can only hope that once the barnpot schemes to enable as many Class 66's to be built are finished, that somehow more 60's can be refurbed and brought to the mainline. whether DBS will allow this or not remains to be seen.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Its also on Wiki that Colas have bought 20

 

[83G/84D]

As previously stated the Colas pool on TOPS contains 10 examples:- 60002/21/26/47/56/76/85/87/95 & 96. Of these four are currently operational:- 60021/76/85 & 87.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Its also on Wiki that Colas have bought 20

and we all know how accurate that can be

 

[158722]

The other 10 locos mentioned by Y961 XBU, 60013/28/29/33/38/41/46/48/55/61 are shown on Tugtracker as being in a pool of their own, WQDA, which would certainly seem to indicate that they are considered separate from the rest of the DBS fleet

WQDA is the for sale/disposal pool, the ten actually sold were also in this pool until their sale was confirmed. Their continued presence in this pool could be just a lack of updating the pool code to the other stored/reserve pools or that they could be another round of sales. Whatever wiki and whoever else says, these 10 locos remain DBS at present.

 

[Jamesb1974]

we can only hope that once the barnpot schemes to enable as many Class 66's to be built are finished, that somehow more 60's can be refurbed and brought to the mainline. whether DBS will allow this or not remains to be seen.

Not sure it a question of whether DBS will allow it (unless you mean selling them on, but even then it is hardly good business practice to sell your assets to competitors in the same market sector).

I think availability of certain components may have a major part to play in whether or not more 60s get refurbished. Don't forget technology, especially in the field of micro electronics has moved on a long way since the late 80's/early 90's.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Thanks for the corrections guys

 

[CosherB]

Not sure it a question of whether DBS will allow it (unless you mean selling them on, but even then it is hardly good business practice to sell your assets to competitors in the same market sector).

I think availability of certain components may have a major part to play in whether or not more 60s get refurbished. Don't forget technology, especially in the field of micro electronics has moved on a long way since the late 80's/early 90's.

i agree about selling assets to competitors - this all stems from how the railfreight industry was privatised and allowing EWS to purchase all of the locos, rather than forcing ROSCOs to pick them up (easy for me to say with hindsight), but then the DFT has never been blessed with great foresight. whether political pressure can be applied to DBS to offload more Class 60's for beneficial use by others is beyond my pay grade. maybe Colas will go for more 60's when they have sufficient confidence in their reliability and performance, to the point that they may keep 60's and 70's as their main form of heavy haulage - my speculation. just seems nuts to me that there of dozens of serviceable locos that could go through the Super 60 refurb that will fix all of the electronics issues you mention. the world really has gone mad.

 

[Jamesb1974]

whether political pressure can be applied to DBS to offload more Class 60's for beneficial use by others is beyond my pay grade.

Hmm, not sure whether 'political pressure' can be brought to bear against a private company in relation to selling its own assets!

Just because my neighbour has a classic car in the garage that he only uses at weekends and I have to catch the bus to work, doesn't mean that he has to sell it to me for my beneficial use.

(I don't catch the bus to work, but he does have a rather nice MG...)

 

[ExRes]

Are we sure that DBS actually own these locos?, I remember distinctly when EWS took over that mortgage stickers started appearing on some locos as the generous Ed decided that ripping off assets was far better business than investing in them, remember the 250 Class 66s that he 'bought', maybe the 60s have never been cashed in but it wouldn't surprise me if they were owned by a bank and leased by DBS

 

[455driver]

Are we sure that DBS actually own these locos?

Yes they do!
DBS (as EWS) have been forced to sell redundant locos previously after being accused of a monopoly by the DaFT/SRA/some other poxy government department tild them to!

 

[CosherB]

Hmm, not sure whether 'political pressure' can be brought to bear against a private company in relation to selling its own assets!

Just because my neighbour has a classic car in the garage that he only uses at weekends and I have to catch the bus to work, doesn't mean that he has to sell it to me for my beneficial use.

(I don't catch the bus to work, but he does have a rather nice MG...)

true, but then you and i aren't the government! lol

 

[Jamesb1974]

Yes they do!
DBS (as EWS) have been forced to sell redundant locos previously after being accused of a monopoly by the DaFT/SRA/some other poxy government department tild them to!

Was that not in the pre-class 66 era, when EWS did own nearly all the ex BR locos and there was no real alternative? It's a bit different now. Lots of new loco classes have emerged on the scene since then (66/68/70 etc). Plus the market for reactivated/re-engineered stuff seems to be levelling off a bit.

 

[455driver]

I think the 66s were already here hence the other locos being withdrawn/having their sides ripped off so some small components could be retrieved.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Saw 60092 in Huyton today

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68287403@N06/15910572968/in/photostream/

 

[Bevan Price]

we can only hope that once the barnpot schemes to enable as many Class 66's to be built are finished, that somehow more 60's can be refurbed and brought to the mainline. whether DBS will allow this or not remains to be seen.

Class 60 has a "problem" - they are limited to 60 mph, and so cannot be used to work intermodal services timed to run at 75 mph maximum. Hence, there will always be a need for Class 66, or other locos. capable of running at 75 mph or more.

 

[Ploughman]

Is there a way that the speed could be increased easily without too much effect on the haulage capability?

 

[455driver]

Is there a way that the speed could be increased easily without too much effect on the haulage capability?

The maximum speed is dictated by the rotation speed of the traction motors so to increase the maximum speed you would need to raise the gearing otherwise the traction motors would overspeed, but raising the gearing would decrease the tractive effort available so you have to decide exactly what the loco is going to be used for and design the gearing around that.