You'd have to ask someone involved in that particular project. After my time. As pointed out previously 12 cars can in theory run, but with very limited terminal platform availability, which then poses potential risks to performance and the wider timetable if/when things go wrong.
They have consistently been SWT / SWR's most unreliable train for around a decade now (well - until the introduction of the 701s, that is...). They had a peak of excellent reliability for 4-5 years around 15 years ago, but have been lacklustre for the majority of their lives.
If Southeastern were to get them I imagine they would do mainline work.
One solution would be to unbolt the seats and move them between units.
Is there a challenge there as to who owns the seats and whether the various parties (Angel, Porterbrook, SWR, DfT etc) could come up with a suitable deal to organise that?
They are very comfortable from a passenger perspective
It really would bring the 442/458/460 story full circle!
No they wouldn't, because they'd be extra hassle for all of SE's drivers, guards, maintenance staff, etc., who have to learn how to handle yet another fleet, especially one which has nothing in common with the rest of the TOC's fleets. Southern/GTX, then moving more 377s to SE would be a better move, as Southern have far fewer fleet types, but even this isn't brilliant, thus scrap seems most likely to me.
It rather depends on how you define it, if the 2017 franchise launch of 10,000 extra rush hour seats were met, actually still short.
Designed in the 90s by the French, built in Birmingham. It was never going to well...
This is a non-issue - the 707s were introduced without much fuss.
Yes, but the 458s, or another fleet type not already at Southeastern, would add to the 707s and still couldn't bin off Networkers in full. Maybe if it was another brand newish fleet you could get away with it, but in this case, despite a hefty refurb, 458s haven't exactly done well for reliability either.
Introducing the 707s was a huge undertaking, Southeastern got on with it and as introductions go was pretty smooth. However, the trains needed to be cleared for the routes, large number of staff being trained and platform train interface (PTI) checks including for the DOO cameras. The last one alone was something like 1,000 lights being altered or added to provide sufficient light for the cameras. Then there were the software faults with the 707s for the previously unused DOO cameras the last of which was fixed several years post introduction. With the 707s being new that effort will be for the 30 or so years they might expect to remain in service. The 458s would be more like 10 years and as others have noted aren't overly reliable now.
The lease on the 458/4s is until 2027 and while no clear future the ROSCO will be less compromising on unserviceable units compared to 455s. The surplus 455s could be used short term but SWR will want them gone for financial reasons. Short formations or borrowed 450s seem more likely if 458/4s aren't available instead of keeping the final 455s around. It would only be a short while before 701s start replacing the 458/4s as well once the 455s are all stood down.
I am hearing mid November is when the 455s will be completely withdrawn as 701s are taking over at a rate of 1-2 units per week, then the 458/5s will go by December with the 458/4s being the last to go.
Really?
Thameslink 700s, probably.
The 700s for a start.
Hearing from where, please?
From staff at Clapham Junction and from train crewe.
I suspect there is a certain amount of rumour mixed in.
Also when they hit there milage limits they will be withdrawn.
