Class 458/5

[TEW]

No, the 458/0 diagram is the 1139 Reading-London Waterloo.

 

[Techniquest]

Harsh, I'll miss that as I'll be arriving on the 0954 Great Malvern to London Paddington (if I go that is), so I'd miss it by about 16 minutes.

I might not be in the area anyway, but at least I know I won't get a 458/0. All depends on what answers I get in the morning.

Thanks for the quick reply though!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Harsh, I'll miss that as I'll be arriving on the 0954 Great Malvern to London Paddington (if I go that is), so I'd miss it by about 16 minutes.

I might not be in the area anyway, but at least I know I won't get a 458/0. All depends on what answers I get in the morning.

Thanks for the quick reply though!

Would doubt it would be a 458/5,they don't frequent those parts ATM.AFAIK.

 

[Techniquest]

No worries, I think I've seen it happen once but I don't have the notes to back that up.

I'll know by 0740 where I'm going!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is it confirmed that 8501 will have the damaged coach repaired? Had the design still been made by the manufacturer would the coach have been written off and a new one made?

 

[swt_passenger]

Have you looked at the photos and sketches in the RAIB report? There's absolutely nothing there that suggests write off, it'll just need the right expertise.

 

[D365]

Have you looked at the photos and sketches in the RAIB report?

Doubt it.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have you looked at the photos and sketches in the RAIB report? There's absolutely nothing there that suggests write off, it'll just need the right expertise.

Doubt it.

Yes i have. Just because it might be repairable doesn't mean to say it will be, it could be deemed to be not financially viable to repair

 

[D365]

I had a faulty junction box fitted behind my fridge a few years back. Didn't mean I had to write off my entire new fridge.

To be fair though it didn't burn a 30cm hole through the cupboard!

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes i have. Just because it might be repairable doesn't mean to say it will be, it could be deemed to be not financially viable to repair

They could even take a small section of floor out of one of the 4 remaining spare 460 driving cars, but the idea that they'll build a new carriage for such a small repair is frankly ridiculous...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They could even take a small section of floor out of one of the 4 remaining spare 460 driving cars, but the idea that they'll build a new carriage for such a small repair is frankly ridiculous...

You'd certainly think so, but after the 7/7 bombings weren't a few "new" C-stock vehicles built only to be scrapped a few years later?

 

[swt_passenger]

You'd certainly think so, but after the 7/7 bombings weren't a few "new" C-stock vehicles built only to be scrapped a few years later?

I don't believe this is really comparable with the damage to those cars...

 

[Juniper Driver]

No worries, I think I've seen it happen once but I don't have the notes to back that up.

I'll know by 0740 where I'm going!

Definitely been down there on test runs.Looks like I've driven my last 458/0 about 4 months ago.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

458/5s are currently only allowed between Virginia Water & Reading between 10am & 3pm and not in service when in 10 car formation.

This is due to power constraints.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't believe this is really comparable with the damage to those cars...

The damage isn't really the issue, it's the fact that new vehicles of an out-dated design were sanctioned with less than a decade of use before being scrapped.

 

[D365]

The damage isn't really the issue, it's the fact that new vehicles of an out-dated design were sanctioned with less than a decade of use before being scrapped.

As far as I am aware, the 'C08' cars consisted of new bodyshells built on salvaged underframes.

http://districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/164852/thread

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As far as I am aware, the 'C08' cars consisted of new bodyshells built on salvaged underframes.

http://districtdavesforum.co.uk/post/164852/thread

That does make (a little bit) more sense... A shame they weren't preserved both as they'd presumably be in better shape, and it would have been a fitting memorial to have them in the LT museum.

 

[Defiance149]

47830 due to come south tonight with 458523.

 

[WarrenTManager]

47830 due to come south tonight with 458523.

Half of 8028 going the other way

 

[WWTownEnth]

458501 Out of service - fire damaged
458502 In service
458503 In service
458504 In service
458505 In service 21/04/15
458506 Doncaster 13/10/15
458508 In service 02/11/15
458509 In service 29/08/15
458510 In service 28/04/15
458511 In service 04/05/15
458812 Wimbledon testing 05/11/15
458513 Doncaster 10/09/15
458514 Doncaster 30/09/15
458515 Wimbledon testing 30/09/15
458017 Doncaster 22/10/15
458518 In service 20/07/15
458019 In service 14/09/15
458520 In service
458522 In service 02/11/15
458523 Wimbledon testing 02/11/15
458524 In service 26/05/15
458525 In service 09/06/15
458526 In service 29/08/15
458527 In service 20/07/15
458528 Doncaster 02/11/15
458529 In service 28/09/15
458530 In service
458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 In service

In summary:

3 458s remaining (458007, 458016, 458021)
1 458/5 in repair
3 458/5s in testing
5 458/5s in conversion
24 458/5s in service

 

[Siemens Staines]

Are there not two 458/5 on repair, 458501 & 458518, or is 518 back in service already?

8016 + 8021 are on the regular 458/0 diagram today

 

[bramling]

The damage isn't really the issue, it's the fact that new vehicles of an out-dated design were sanctioned with less than a decade of use before being scrapped.

The C stocks were a special case.

Firstly, they weren't the only cars which needed heavy repair, one other car (adjacent in the Aldgate formation) also needed major structural work, as well as a number of other cars needing more minor attention.

This combined with a fleet which was already short of space capability - from memory I think the peak requirement was 41 out of 45 trains, and more unusually on the C stock routes the off-peak requirement was almost as much, combined with an ageing fleet which was always one of the most unreliable on the Underground.

I'm not sure if there was any insurance or external funding arrangement, given how the trains came to be damaged. Also at the time the S stock was a few years away and there may have been thoughts that it might be best to play safe in case S stock ended up arriving later than envisaged.

All the above factors combined led to a decision taken to restore the fleet to its original size.

Although the bodywork on the new cars is new, I'm unsure how much of the underframe and equipment was re-used.

In the event, I'm not sure how much value the company got from them, as the revised Circle timetable reduced the trains requirement, and not long after the two rebuilt units became available unit 5595 became long-term stopped and never worked again, so the situation can't have been as tight as first thought.

It would have been good to see one of these preserved from a historical viewpoint, although it's understandable if these were sensitivities involved.

 

[Goldfish62]

458505 and 458515 must be close to entering service - that'll probably be the end of the remaining 458/0s then.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I am 90% sure 458522 was in service this evening (with 458510 on 2R57) but that would imply 522 has jumped the testing queue so its probably best confirmed by a second pair of eyes before taking my word for it

 

[WarrenTManager]

I am 90% sure 458522 was in service this evening (with 458510 on 2R57) but that would imply 522 has jumped the testing queue so its probably best confirmed by a second pair of eyes before taking my word for it

508 accepted yesterday but hadn't run as far as I know
515 still fault free running to complete
522 accepted yesterday and on maiden voyage today.

90%? Have more faith in your eyes 100% correct

 

[hassaanhc]

Even with these latest introductions they were two units short in the morning. On Sunday I got 458536+458534 (1952 Woking to Clapham Junction) with no motors working in 67918 (inner DMSO of 458534). The foggy weather combined with leaf fall meant that as soon as the set left the mainline it started losing time straight away. We left Hounslow 12 late and arrived Clapham Junction 17 late.

 

[TEW]

508 accepted yesterday but hadn't run as far as I know
515 still fault free running to complete
522 accepted yesterday and on maiden voyage today.

90%? Have more faith in your eyes 100% correct

508 was out with 515 on an unusual ECS movement to Guildford and return. Fault free running for 515 I presume.

 

[Goldfish62]

Even with these latest introductions they were two units short in the morning. On Sunday I got 458536+458534 (1952 Woking to Clapham Junction) with no motors working in 67918 (inner DMSO of 458534). The foggy weather combined with leaf fall meant that as soon as the set left the mainline it started losing time straight away. We left Hounslow 12 late and arrived Clapham Junction 17 late.

It wasn't uncommon for the 458/0s to run with one set of motors down, but they seemed to cope ok. Presumably a far more adverse affect with the 458/5s though.

One thing they've never coped with is leaf fall!

 

[Juniper Driver]

458505 and 458515 must be close to entering service - that'll probably be the end of the remaining 458/0s then.

I first drove 505 nearly 2 months ago.(For the World Cup opener)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It wasn't uncommon for the 458/0s to run with one set of motors down, but they seemed to cope ok. Presumably a far more adverse affect with the 458/5s though.

One thing they've never coped with is leaf fall!

It seems strange that with their modern traction packages they struggle as badly as a 456, yet 450/444 don't seem to have much trouble if you have a subtle hand and apply power gently.

I can often do better with the old fashioned camshaft controlled 455s and hand notching.