Class 458/5

[SpacePhoenix]

A quick look on RTT shows that 2T14 0500 Portsmouth-Basingstoke goes from a 6 159 to an 8 450 in December, the 159s are needed to assist with the new services on the West Of England line so getting the 458s sorted a bit earlier presumably assists with the release of another pair of 450s.

Would part of that be to free up a 450 for the Lymington branch to free up a 159 for the West of England line or is it additional units that will be freed up?

 

[TEW]

A quick look on RTT shows that 2T14 0500 Portsmouth-Basingstoke goes from a 6 159 to an 8 450 in December, the 159s are needed to assist with the new services on the West Of England line so getting the 458s sorted a bit earlier presumably assists with the release of another pair of 450s.

Looks like the 0500 Portsmouth-Basingstoke remains as 6-159. But the onward working, 2L88, 0642 Basingstoke-Waterloo becomes 8-450.

 

[RobShipway]

Could the 47 be to do with the engineering work at Twickenham that I believe is taking place tonight/tomorrow as the Reading/Windsor trains are going via the Hounslow loop tomorrow to Waterloo?

 

[Matt Taylor]

It shows as an EMU for December 15th, also the 2221 Basingstoke-Portsmouth has gone from a 159 to an EMU also. From Decmber 2L88 goes ECS to Clapham, currently it stays at Waterloo and forms the 0820 to Exeter.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Could the 47 be to do with the engineering work at Twickenham that I believe is taking place tonight/tomorrow as the Reading/Windsor trains are going via the Hounslow loop tomorrow to Waterloo?

I reckon it was laying in wait for another unsuspecting 458/0.Usual place.Also I could see a 458/0 the other side of the yard.

 

[TEW]

It shows as an EMU for December 15th, also the 2221 Basingstoke-Portsmouth has gone from a 159 to an EMU also. From Decmber 2L88 goes ECS to Clapham, currently it stays at Waterloo and forms the 0820 to Exeter.

2L88 is definitely a 450. But on arrival at Basingstoke 2T14 shunts to Barton Mill Sidings, with a separate train coming off Barton Mill Sidings for 2L88. Looks like 2T14 will be a 159, which then forms 1L11, 0722 Basingstoke-Gillingham. The set for that service currently comes ECS from Eastleigh after working the 0542 Southampton Central-Eastleigh. That ECS no longer runs though, and it looks like the 0542 Southampton Central-Eastleigh is no longer a 159.

 

[WarrenTManager]

I reckon it was laying in wait for another unsuspecting 458/0.Usual place.Also I could see a 458/0 the other side of the yard.

Everything is going up by road now. They are still hauled back. The translators at WD are the Dellner ones, not the AAR Tightlock, so can't be used for /0

 

[Juniper Driver]

Everything is going up by road now. They are still hauled back. The translators at WD are the Dellner ones, not the AAR Tightlock, so can't be used for /0

Yeah,I thought they were going to Doncaster by road so what you say is obviously correct.Cheers.

 

[Siemens Staines]

So on the first day that the 0724 Reading - Waterloo no longer runs, the 0753 Windsor - Waterloo that runs between the 0712 and 0742 Reading is 5 vice 10 and wedged. Who could have predicted that...

"07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:51 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. Service full and standing from Feltham. This is due to a large passenger flow. Last Updated :28/09/2015 08:17"

 

[SWT_USER]

... And the first day of the 17:05 being cancelled is swifly followed by the cancellation of the 17:20. Absolutely useless!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So on the first day that the 0724 Reading - Waterloo no longer runs, the 0753 Windsor - Waterloo that runs between the 0712 and 0742 Reading is 5 vice 10 and wedged. Who could have predicted that...

"07:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 08:51 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. Service full and standing from Feltham. This is due to a large passenger flow. Last Updated :28/09/2015 08:17"

Unusually large passenger flow? In the morning peak in to London. Right-O.

 

[Siemens Staines]

In addition to the disruption on the Reading line are some curious stock formation alterations this evening. Are any of these trains really booked to be 5 coaches?

"17:15 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo due 18:59 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12

19:12 London Waterloo to Basingstoke due 20:16 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12

20:24 Basingstoke to London Waterloo due 21:34 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault.

22:00 London Waterloo to Haslemere due 22:58 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12"

 

[Bigfoot]

They're all the same units diagram. Which should be a 444... But it wanted a sleep.

 

[swt_passenger]

In addition to the disruption on the Reading line are some curious stock formation alterations this evening. Are any of these trains really booked to be 5 coaches?

"17:15 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo due 18:59 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12

19:12 London Waterloo to Basingstoke due 20:16 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12

20:24 Basingstoke to London Waterloo due 21:34 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5. This is due to a train fault.

22:00 London Waterloo to Haslemere due 22:58 Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 5.
This is due to a train fault. Last Updated :28/09/2015 11:12"

The 4 services are part of a single diagram, (so Portsmouth to Basingstoke via Waterloo and return over 4 legs) and were a single 444 in the 2015 CWNs (from Dec 2014). That may have changed but it certainly isn't impossible that it is still a 444, as Bigfoot has confirmed now.

 

[Siemens Staines]

The 4 services are part of a single diagram, (so Portsmouth to Basingstoke via Waterloo and return over 4 legs) and were a single 444 in the 2015 CWNs (from Dec 2014). That may have changed but it certainly isn't impossible that it is still a 444, as Bigfoot has confirmed now.

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't realised that 444 worked on any of the Basingstoke stoppers which is what confused me - something that is easily done!

 

[TEW]

There's a few 444s on Basingstoke stoppers throughout the course of the day Monday-Fridays.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's a few 444s on Basingstoke stoppers throughout the course of the day Monday-Fridays.

Would it be better suited to a 450 or would a 450 not have enough capacity?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would it be better suited to a 450 or would a 450 not have enough capacity?

A single 450 may or may not have enough capacity, but I'd think probably not at the time of the down service to Basingstoke. But a pair of 450s may not be available because it is being used to form an 8 or 12 car somewhere else. A 444 therefore provides more capacity than a single 450.

In order of capacity on the mainline services, it goes 4.450, 5.444, 8.450, 10.444, 12.450, and SWT's announcements about train strengthening, discussed a couple of weeks back in this thread, already reflect this.

 

[hassaanhc]

Would it be better suited to a 450 or would a 450 not have enough capacity?

Pretty sure it would be the former, for the door sizes if nothing else. I used the 1642 Waterloo to Basingstoke as far as Surbiton once; it left Waterloo with many standing, but more than 1/3 must have got off at Surbiton, which took some time to unload. Just as well it is booked a 2-3 minute dwell there.

In fact I'm certain the 1J91 1923 Waterloo to Surbiton non-stop (using 455+455 ECS from the 1800 Epsom) only exists because the 1925 to Alton is a single 444 (first stop West Byfleet as a result). The 1923 fills up very well despite only calling at Surbiton, and a single 444 would be completely wedged and a disaster for dwell times.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Everything is going up by road now. They are still hauled back. The translators at WD are the Dellner ones, not the AAR Tightlock, so can't be used for /0

67614 was being loaded onto a trailer this afternoon

 

[infobleep]

Pretty sure it would be the former, for the door sizes if nothing else. I used the 1642 Waterloo to Basingstoke as far as Surbiton once; it left Waterloo with many standing, but more than 1/3 must have got off at Surbiton, which took some time to unload. Just as well it is booked a 2-3 minute dwell there.

In fact I'm certain the 1J91 1923 Waterloo to Surbiton non-stop (using 455+455 ECS from the 1800 Epsom) only exists because the 1925 to Alton is a single 444 (first stop West Byfleet as a result). The 1923 fills up very well despite only calling at Surbiton, and a single 444 would be completely wedged and a disaster for dwell times.

May be that explains why no fast services run from Surbiton to Woking between 18.42 and 20.00.

Saying that no Alton service stops at Surbiton after 16.41 until the 20.11. I don't know how many coaches are on the 18.55 to Alton?

This is going off topic but I'd quite like the 19.23 to continue to Woking and/or beyond, just like the 17.23 and 18.23 do. Whether there would be any demand I don't know. That's before one looks at crew arrangements. The 19.23 runs ECS to Hampton Court from a Surbiton and then ECS back to Wimbledon Park depot.

The 18.45 Waterloo to Portsmouth service also stops at West Byfleet and misses out Clapham Junction. It's one of the few Portsmouth services to stop there.

In other words you get some odd train stopping patterns and uses of carriages during rush hour.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Only thing about that is the crew diagram would have to be amended as you said. Its currently a Waterloo commercial turn who then pass back to Waterloo from Surbiton to finish.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There's a pair of 444s that run down to Alton too, they come up on the 0651 Southampton Parkway-Waterloo and then go out on the 0823-I worked this yesterday. That's another job which is booked to switch to a 12 450 when capacity is available.

 

[TEW]

Two more single 444s too:
0653/1625 Waterloo-Alton
0844/1814 Alton-Waterloo

I know the morning one of those is booked to go over to an 8-450 when capacity is available too.

 

[Siemens Staines]

I agree its hard to guess. 2C53 the 1720 to Reading is off 2C50 so I don't think 2S48 will do 2C53 unless there is a more significant shuffle of the pack. The next Reading that comes in ECS is the 1750 and clearly 2S48 is not going to occupy a platform at Waterloo for an hour before doing that

Shows how wrong my assumption was. If RTT for tonight is correct, then 2S48 did indeed sit in platform 18 for 55 minutes this evening (1655-1750) before forming 2C55 to Reading. Clearly having stock doing nothing and blocking a platform at Waterloo at this time of the evening is not the problem that I thought that it would be.

 

[theblackwatch]

Everything is going up by road now. They are still hauled back. The translators at WD are the Dellner ones, not the AAR Tightlock, so can't be used for /0

What happened to the translators that were used early on? (Which could presumably cope with AAR couplings.)

 

[ChampsRacing]

458/5 drag currently heading down to Wimbledon reported leaving Donny around 25 mins ago should be 458515. Also only 1 458/0 diagram today since 458529's introduction into service.

 

[WWTownEnth]

458501 Out of service - fire damaged
458502 In service
458503 In service
458504 In service
458505 In service 21/04/15
458508 Wimbledon testing 15/09/15
458509 In service 29/08/15
458510 In service 28/04/15
458511 In service 04/05/15
458812 Doncaster 19/08/15
458513 Doncaster 10/09/15
458514 Doncaster 30/09/15
458515 Wimbledon testing 30/09/15
458518 In service 20/07/15
458019 In service 14/09/15
458520 In service
458522 Doncaster 20/07/15
458523 Doncaster 05/08/15
458524 In service 26/05/15
458525 In service 09/06/15
458526 In service 29/08/15
458527 In service 20/07/15
458529 In service 28/09/15
458530 In service
458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 In service

In summary:

6 458s remaining (458006, 458007, 458016, 458017, 458021, 458028)
1 458/5 in repair
2 458/5s in testing
5 458/5s in conversion
22 458/5s in service

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Two more single 444s too:
0653/1625 Waterloo-Alton
0844/1814 Alton-Waterloo

I know the morning one of those is booked to go over to an 8-450 when capacity is available too.

Good, the sooner the better. 444's were never designed or meant to go to Alton, as a 10 they're a gawd darn menace, there's been so many incidents with them, they (444's) should be kept where they belong on the Portsmouth Direct or Soton/Bomo/Weymouth lines, not some branch line.

I thought that there was meant to be a 10 car 459 working to Alton from the last TT change, but that never materialised, I guess that's down to lack of availability. As long as they don't give me a 459 I don't really care if one goes there, as I'm not type trained (lapsed).

 

[theblackwatch]

Can we keep this thread to 458s please - we don't mind a bit of drift, but if you wish to start discussing 159/444/450 diagrams or workings in more detail, please start another thread. Thanks!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Oky doky.

Although I did mention 459 (aka 458/5) in the post.