Class 458/5

[swt_passenger]

For the C4s for the 458s will each unit just come in, have it's running gear removed, another refurbed running gear attached and then head out, whilst it's old running gear gets refurbed and then attached to another unit?

That is the normal and most efficient way of doing it. There are subcontractors who specialise in production line bogie overhaul. An individual unit would have to be out of service much too long if its own running gear was to be replaced after overhaul.

Replacing all 8 (or 10 or however many it takes) bogies together is the main justification for modern depots having lifting roads and jacks that can lift an entire unit at once.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8N72t7aScY

Rebooting the 458/5 TMS.:-?

BTW my name is not Dave.

Saw a clip on youtube once of a Voyager being booted up, it's TMS (at least whever the video was filmed) runs Windows Embedded CE

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I 444/450 use Windows 3.1 for Workgroups and it takes an age to load up after a reboot which you have to do during prep.

I can't remember what 458s use now, whatever it is it could do with an upgrade!

 

[RobShipway]

8006/8007 are out running today, must need them for the amount of extra's they are running for the Rugby. Currently 15 late at Ascot heading to Reading.

Yes, I saw them at about 8am this morning at Martins Heron on route to Reading.

Unfortunately, my two journey's today where on class 450's so it might be such that I do not get to travel on 8006/8007 before they depart to become class 458/5's.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Saw a clip on youtube once of a Voyager being booted up, it's TMS (at least whever the video was filmed) runs Windows Embedded CE

458/0's run Windows 1.1
458/5's run Windows 2 or so I am told.

 

[infobleep]

458/0's run Windows 1.1
458/5's run Windows 2 or so I am told.

Wow but if it does the job then fine. When these finally retire in the future, will one be kept for heritage running?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

458/0's run Windows 1.1
458/5's run Windows 2 or so I am told.

Owch, according to Wikipedia Windows 2 was out of date way back in 1988 and isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore. Given the different classes to locos and units that have TMSs, why haven't the manufacturers gotten together and developed a common TMS (with maybe plugin modules for dealing with anything specific to a given class)?

 

[Domh245]

Owch, according to Wikipedia Windows 2 was out of date way back in 1988 and isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore. Given the different classes to locos and units that have TMSs, why haven't the manufacturers gotten together and developed a common TMS (with maybe plugin modules for dealing with anything specific to a given class)?

Because who gets to develop it (ie, who gets the royalites!). Siemens could write it, but then Bombardier would have to pay extra to use it in theirs, and Vice versa. Of course, then you have hitachi coming into the mix and it gets even more ugly!

Even if you have the manufacturers somehow working together, each of them would try to optimise it for their own products and their own methods of working.

I'll just leave this here as a closing thought:

Source: xkcd

 

[RobShipway]

Because who gets to develop it (ie, who gets the royalites!). Siemens could write it, but then Bombardier would have to pay extra to use it in theirs, and Vice versa. Of course, then you have hitachi coming into the mix and it gets even more ugly!

Even if you have the manufacturers somehow working together, each of them would try to optimise it for their own products and their own methods of working.

I'll just leave this here as a closing thought:

Source: xkcd

I know it is not ideal, but as all would be running on some kind of Windows software why not have Microsoft write the common TMS?

 

[Siemens Staines]

8006/8007 are out running today, must need them for the amount of extra's they are running for the Rugby. Currently 15 late at Ascot heading to Reading.

Just for the added value there was also Horse Racing at Ascot to bring in even more punters on to the trains. I did notice a pair of 455 on 2242 Reading -Waterloo last night. Been a bit of a lull in their appearances on the Readings since significant numbers of 458/5 entered service but this was more likely just an indication of the extra services running

 

[ChampsRacing]

They was parked up in Clapham Yard when i dropped off my 450 in there but came back out later in the evening. I know they had a coach out of use in 8007 it overflowed and filled the carriage.

 

[coppercapped]

Why use a proprietary operating system at all? Linux would be an obvious alternative or one of the free Unix distributions.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Owch, according to Wikipedia Windows 2 was out of date way back in 1988 and isn't even supported by Microsoft anymore. Given the different classes to locos and units that have TMSs, why haven't the manufacturers gotten together and developed a common TMS (with maybe plugin modules for dealing with anything specific to a given class)?

It already takes about two minutes to do PIS.When it's monitoring the train it's fine but when you have to put the PIS code it it's very slow.Would guess the processor/memory is very ancient also and would be even worse running a chunkier operating system.I think when I bought my PC in 1996 the processor was 133mhz.Can't remember what the memory was.

Why use a proprietary operating system at all? Linux would be an obvious alternative or one of the free Unix distributions.

Were these out in 1998,when the units were introduced?

Also the additional screen added,the coupling screen also showing brake pressures so really it does run very well apart from the slow PIS code thingy.

 

[TEW]

There is a pair of 458/0s out on Waterloo-Reading via Kingston services. 1209 Waterloo-Reading and 1423 return. Repeats 4.5 hours later.

 

[RobShipway]

There is a pair of 458/0s out on Waterloo-Reading via Kingston services. 1209 Waterloo-Reading and 1423 return. Repeats 4.5 hours later.

Yes, that is 8006 & 8007. Attached is a photo I took of 8006 at the end of the end of the train at Vauxhall earlier this afternoon.

The train I was due to catch from Vauxhall was teh 16:13, service which got delayed to a fault with some doors on one the class 450 units. Anyway, when we got to Twickenham 458007 and 458006 went into the platform opposite the train I was on and then followed the 450 sets that I was travelling all the way down the line 10 minutes later certainly to the point where i got off at Martins Heron.

When the 450 service that I was on went past the depot at Wimbledon, it looked like a 458/5 has possibly been delivered and a 458/0 was awaiting collection next to it?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

These services running via Kingston seems odd, presumably on diversion. Do they reverse at Twickenham then?

 

[gswindale]

It already takes about two minutes to do PIS.When it's monitoring the train it's fine but when you have to put the PIS code it it's very slow.Would guess the processor/memory is very ancient also and would be even worse running a chunkier operating system.I think when I bought my PC in 1996 the processor was 133mhz.Can't remember what the memory was.



Were these out in 1998,when the units were introduced?

Also the additional screen added,the coupling screen also showing brake pressures so really it does run very well apart from the slow PIS code thingy.

Linux was first release in 1991; whilst Unix (upon which Linux was based) was originally developed in the 70s.

Thus there should have been no problems with using one of those systems on these trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

These services running via Kingston seems odd, presumably on diversion. Do they reverse at Twickenham then?

Yes. It's a fairly standard diversion when the route through Putney and Barnes is under maintenance. Happens a few times every year AFAICR.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Linux was first release in 1991; whilst Unix (upon which Linux was based) was originally developed in the 70s.

Thus there should have been no problems with using one of those systems on these trains.

That told me. Just wonder why the insist on using Windows though,wonder what other TOC's units use.Like the 377's?

 

[D365]

That told me. Just wonder why the insist on using Windows though,wonder what other TOC's units use.Like the 377's?

I believe the Electrostar line (until the Class 377/5 or Class 378) used Windows 98, with units since the Class 379 using an (unspecified) build of Linux. A step in the right direction me'thinks :P

 

[Juniper Driver]

I believe the Electrostar line (until the Class 377/5 or Class 378) used Windows 98, with units since the Class 379 using an (unspecified) build of Linux. A step in the right direction me'thinks :P

I don't know a lot about Linux,would it be able to run Championship Manager 97/98?

 

[D365]

I don't know a lot about Linux,would it be able to run Championship Manager 97/98?

Though I don't see how the question is relevant to a TMS, it's relatively straightforward to set up a 'Wrapper' e.g. Wineskin in order to run Windows executables on a Linux distribution, or indeed any UNIX-based OS

 

[James Wake]

Can you walk end to end through a 458/5 pair, I thought you could, but even though the middle door was open, the door in between was closed and the guards bag blocking it. Had to swap units at Richmond.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Though I don't see how the question is relevant to a TMS, it's relatively straightforward to set up a 'Wrapper' e.g. Wineskin in order to run Windows executables on a Linux distribution, or indeed any UNIX-based OS

Nah I just was interested as to whether it would be easy to do that.I just wanted a sort of reference to how easy it would be to run Windows programs.Sorry. Actually it would be useful to run a "light" operating system on my laptop as im having to run it through Virtual PC and Windows XP.

 

[ChampsRacing]

Noted today 8006 has been taken off and 8017 is now paired with 8007.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can you walk end to end through a 458/5 pair, I thought you could, but even though the middle door was open, the door in between was closed and the guards bag blocking it. Had to swap units at Richmond.

SWT have told me you should be able to and indeed I have. However, increasingly guards are locking the gangway, as they often seem to be on 450s as well.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

They most certainly shouldn't be locking the gangways through 450 sets for any reason other than if there's a defective unit or they've been instructed to lock the unit out of service.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

SWT have told me you should be able to and indeed I have. However, increasingly guards are locking the gangway, as they often seem to be on 450s as well.

Last week when I was on a 458/5 I had to swap units via a platform as the doors were locked.

 

[WarrenTManager]

When the 450 service that I was on went past the depot at Wimbledon, it looked like a 458/5 has possibly been delivered and a 458/0 was awaiting collection next to it?

No movement since 8515 arrived last Wednesday and the last one went up on the 28th.

 

[Matt Taylor]

With the exception of 455s there's no reason for any internal gangway doors to be closed except as stated above. One of the by products of the 458/5 program was that it would give guards the chance to patrol trains more easily, I don't work on the metro lines so I don't know whether this has actually happened.

The introduction of non gangwayed 456s and (soon) the 707s isn't helping.