Class 458/5

[Juniper Driver]

Yup the 707's is a move away from the gangwayed trains although the 456's couldn't really be helped.

 

[TEW]

With the exception of 455s there's no reason for any internal gangway doors to be closed except as stated above. One of the by products of the 458/5 program was that it would give guards the chance to patrol trains more easily, I don't work on the metro lines so I don't know whether this has actually happened.

The introduction of non gangwayed 456s and (soon) the 707s isn't helping.

SWT on Twitter have said before that the 458/5 gangways may sometimes be locked in the peak to make it easier for the guard to work the train.

 

[hassaanhc]

With the exception of 455s there's no reason for any internal gangway doors to be closed except as stated above. One of the by products of the 458/5 program was that it would give guards the chance to patrol trains more easily, I don't work on the metro lines so I don't know whether this has actually happened.

The introduction of non gangwayed 456s and (soon) the 707s isn't helping.

I find that I'm far more likely to see the guard patrolling the train and using the saloon door controls on a 450 than on a 455 or 458. Usually it is in conjunction with the compartment next to the FC section.
The 458s only have controls on the door nearest to the wheelchair space, and as I usually sit in the leading coach (thanks to favourite seat :P) I don't normally get to see the guard, although sometimes they do walk down to the front cab then walk back before the next station.
It is the 455s that confuse me. One of the two doors per coach have controls, so better than a 458, but still it isn't very often I see the guard. Maybe they prefer the lack of interlock on a keyed in cab door? Or are the saloon controls poorly positioned, by being a bit high to reach from the platform and facing completely inwards?

 

[Goldfish62]

They most certainly shouldn't be locking the gangways through 450 sets for any reason other than if there's a defective unit or they've been instructed to lock the unit out of service.

It's common practice on the Reading line. The last time it happened I asked the guard why she had done so. She said it was for her personal safety. I'm not going to comment further on the appropriateness of that excuse.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SWT on Twitter have said before that the 458/5 gangways may sometimes be locked in the peak to make it easier for the guard to work the train.

Which is all well and good, but is common practice at all times, usually by non commercial guards.

 

[Sebastian O]

It's common practice on the Reading line. The last time it happened I asked the guard why she had done so. She said it was for her personal safety. I'm not going to comment further on the appropriateness of that excuse.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Which is all well and good, but is common practice at all times, usually by non commercial guards.

Honestly, so what? What on earth gives you the right to start challenging a guard on wether the gangways are usable or not?

It's hardly like you're missing out on the buffet car.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

That then shows you the type of clientele that you're dealing with on the Waterloo-Reading line.

Because you won't find the gangway doors between units locked on any mainline service to Basingstoke/Portsmouth etc, in fact the guards would probably have the book thrown at them for doing so, if they did without an exceptionally good cause.

 

[gswindale]

Honestly, so what? What on earth gives you the right to start challenging a guard on wether the gangways are usable or not?

It's hardly like you're missing out on the buffet car.

So,

Boarding at Waterloo shortly before the 17:50 is due to depart. I get on in the first carriage. Realise it is full and start walking down. Get to the middle of the 8 car train and have found no seats. Think I'll go through to the front half to check there as that is often emptied on departure from Waterloo. Gangway locked out of use so have to disembark and then miss the train as the guard has started the despatch procedure.

If the gangway is supposed to be available for public use; then it is a reasonable request to enquire why it is locked when that happens.

The fact that it wasn't publicly accessible on the original 458s did nothing to help with overcrowding in sections of the train.

I'm also slightly surprised by the comments about the "clientele" on this route as I've never felt particularly unsafe when travelling between Reading & Waterloo (or interim stops) over the last 13 years or so.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If you saw the number of times that trains between upper crust Twickers & Staines were delayed due to "Disruptive passengers" or "Trespass incident" or "Vandalism" or "Passenger alarm being activated" so on & so forth, and it seems more prevalent particularly in the Feltham, Ashford, Egham, Bracknell, Wokingham and Winnersh areas, in which case you'd probably understand my comment about the clientele.

 

[RobShipway]

If you saw the number of times that trains between upper crust Twickers & Staines were delayed due to "Disruptive passengers" or "Trespass incident" or "Vandalism" or "Passenger alarm being activated" so on & so forth, and it seems more prevalent particularly in the Feltham, Ashford, Egham, Bracknell, Wokingham and Winnersh areas, in which case you'd probably understand my comment about the clientele.

A few things that I would like to point out here:

1) I live not far from Martin station which is in between Ascot and Bracknell. I have never seen any issues when I have taken the train within the area between Ascot and Wokingham due to issues that you state above and in fact the issues have been before the train if I am going to Reading, has even got to Staines. Like last Sunday when there was issues on a class 450 to do with the doors not closing that caused the train to be almost thirty minutes late to get to Vauxhall!!!

2) When I have taken the train during rush hour times to London, it has in fact been the clientele that have got on the train from Twickenham onwards that have caused any issues.

3) On the earlier comment about locking the gangways, I presume that the guard is standing by the door while it is locked? I would hate to be them in court having to explain to a jury why they locked the door when the carriage has caught on fire and the passengers died as the only means of escape was locked!!!

 

[Goldfish62]

Honestly, so what? What on earth gives you the right to start challenging a guard on wether the gangways are usable or not?

It's hardly like you're missing out on the buffet car.

Because I'm a customer and the gangways are normally meant for passenger use? I sincerely hope you don't work in any customer facing industry.

 

[D365]

Because I'm a customer and the gangways are normally meant for passenger use?

It's up to the train crew/management whether they open up inter-unit gangways and not for passengers to override their authority.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

3) On the earlier comment about locking the gangways, I presume that the guard is standing by the door while it is locked? I would hate to be them in court having to explain to a jury why they locked the door when the carriage has caught on fire and the passengers died as the only means of escape was locked!!!

If the guard was standing by the gangway door he'd be quite alert to any fumes in the carriage and would be able to take appropriate action. With regards to any possible situation where a gangway was the only means of escape: it clearly hasn't been identified as enough of a risk to install cab doors in all multiple units.

 

[455driver]

A few things that I would like to point out here:

1) I live not far from Martin station which is in between Ascot and Bracknell. I have never seen any issues when I have taken the train within the area between Ascot and Wokingham due to issues that you state above and in fact the issues have been before the train if I am going to Reading, has even got to Staines. Like last Sunday when there was issues on a class 450 to do with the doors not closing that caused the train to be almost thirty minutes late to get to Vauxhall!!!

2) When I have taken the train during rush hour times to London, it has in fact been the clientele that have got on the train from Twickenham onwards that have caused any issues.

3) On the earlier comment about locking the gangways, I presume that the guard is standing by the door while it is locked? I would hate to be them in court having to explain to a jury why they locked the door when the carriage has caught on fire and the passengers died as the only means of escape was locked!!!

Do you travel very late in the evening?

As for point 3) what are you wibbling on about, what exactly is the difference between the 458/0 having the gangway doors locked and the 458/5 having them locked?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A few things that I would like to point out here:

1) I live not far from Martin station which is in between Ascot and Bracknell. I have never seen any issues when I have taken the train within the area between Ascot and Wokingham due to issues that you state above and in fact the issues have been before the train if I am going to Reading, has even got to Staines. Like last Sunday when there was issues on a class 450 to do with the doors not closing that caused the train to be almost thirty minutes late to get to Vauxhall!!!

2) When I have taken the train during rush hour times to London, it has in fact been the clientele that have got on the train from Twickenham onwards that have caused any issues.

3) On the earlier comment about locking the gangways, I presume that the guard is standing by the door while it is locked? I would hate to be them in court having to explain to a jury why they locked the door when the carriage has caught on fire and the passengers died as the only means of escape was locked!!!

1. I know where Martin's Heron is thank you and it's where I nearly nailed one of the local mongs who decided to run across the tracks and on the way back found a shopping trolley from the Tesco store next to the station on the track. Civilised? I would beg to differ!

2. It's still the Windsor side that causes trouble, regardless and I for one would lock my doors, knowing what some of the "clientele" are like and my colleagues who work across there on a regular basis tell me what trouble they're always having on those lines.

3. If those door are locked for crew security late at night, personally I wouldn't blame them, during the day it's a different matter, however the doors are able to be unlocked in seconds, the flick of a key.

 

[Goldfish62]

If you saw the number of times that trains between upper crust Twickers & Staines were delayed due to "Disruptive passengers" or "Trespass incident" or "Vandalism" or "Passenger alarm being activated" so on & so forth, and it seems more prevalent particularly in the Feltham, Ashford, Egham, Bracknell, Wokingham and Winnersh areas, in which case you'd probably understand my comment about the clientele.

I do understand your point, although it's a much much pleasanter line to travel on than most in south and south east London, not to mention the Chertsey line or Hounslow loop.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1. I know where Martin's Heron is thank you and it's where I nearly nailed one of the local mongs who decided to run across the tracks and on the way back found a shopping trolley from the Tesco store next to the station on the track. Civilised? I would beg to differ!

The crime stats for the area suggest it is. I've lived and worked in some rum areas and can assure you that Martins Heron isn't in that category.

 

[Sebastian O]

Because I'm a customer and the gangways are normally meant for passenger use? I sincerely hope you don't work in any customer facing industry.

Thanks for your sincere comments, alas it is completely the guards choice where to remain on the train. Both cabs are very narrow for the guard and is the only safe place the guard can remain in the busy sections of the line when it is full and standing.

I would suggest you are being a tad irritating if you are resorting to ranting at the guard, as if this is going to change their perspective.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for your sincere comments, alas it is completely the guards choice where to remain on the train. Both cabs are very narrow for the guard and is the only safe place the guard can remain in the busy sections of the line when it is full and standing.

I would suggest you are being a tad irritating if you are resorting to ranting at the guard, as if this is going to change their perspective.

Am I right in assume it's unsafe for the guard to stand in the full and standing sections of trains due to them having to release the doors safely and despatch the train safely? This being much harder if the stars they are standing in is very full.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Due to the disruption caused by this mornings fatality at Surbition, a lot more trains than normal used the old Eurostar platform 20 at Waterloo today. This included 2C20/2C23/2C34/2C37 with 8017 + 8007. Unlikely to be many more instances of 458/0 in the old Eurostar terminal?

 

[Bigfoot]

Do you travel very late in the evening?

As for point 3) what are you wibbling on about, what exactly is the difference between the 458/0 having the gangway doors locked and the 458/5 having them locked?

Wibble Wibble indeed!

 

[RobShipway]

Do you travel very late in the evening?

As for point 3) what are you wibbling on about, what exactly is the difference between the 458/0 having the gangway doors locked and the 458/5 having them locked?

No, I travel at both 7am in the morning and 6pm in the evening.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks for your sincere comments, alas it is completely the guards choice where to remain on the train. Both cabs are very narrow for the guard and is the only safe place the guard can remain in the busy sections of the line when it is full and standing.

I would suggest you are being a tad irritating if you are resorting to ranting at the guard, as if this is going to change their perspective.

I'm sorry that you seem to have missed the point completely, but as I assume you are not employed on passenger railways you may not necessarily get it, unlike SWT train crew friends of mine.

As an aside, I'm interested to know why you describe me asking a member of staff question as ranting.

 

[eternalroads]

on a 458/5 10 car with the gangway open the space available to the guard is far too small with a no foldable drivers seat on every unit except ex Gatwick cabs and on the second mans side the cab heater encroaches quite far into the floor space.

this might be why some close the doors. also no guards office when the service is lightly loaded.

 

[ChampsRacing]

To be fair ive never had trouble around the Hounslow Loop, its always Feltham - Windsor/Weybridge/Wokingham that the trouble does start.
Back on topic slightly here, worked 8007/8017 tonight for possibly the last time, shame 3 out of 4 toilets where broken but to be honest for a 458 thats pretty much the norm!

 

[TEW]

The toilet issues don't seem to have been sorted out with the 458/5s either, still common to see them out of order.

 

[swt_passenger]

The toilet issues don't seem to have been sorted out with the 458/5s either, still common to see them out of order.

Weren't the toilets supposed to have been 'sorted' a few years back during some sort of classified overhaul at Bournemouth? I guess they cannot afford to do 'everything' every time the trains go for some sort of works outing...

 

[Siemens Staines]

Crikey, no wonder there are not enough 458/5 to go around if trains are booked load 19

15:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 16:37 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

17:03 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 18:28 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

18:37 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 20:02 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

20:15 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 21:41 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

21:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 23:07 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

23:33 Weybridge to Staines due 00:02 Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 19.
This is due to an earlier train fault. Last Updated :08/10/2015 15:45

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You just have to love Tyrell & Journeycheck!

 

[Goldfish62]

I travelled on 8017 last night on the 2020 from Waterloo, which is part of an all day diagram. Is there just a pair left in service now?

 

[Siemens Staines]

One 458/0 diagram left;

WAT dpt 0620 0950 1320 1650 2020
RDG dpt 0809 1139 1509 1839 2209

 

[Juniper Driver]

Saw 458006 going through the Wimbledon washer outward bound either late AM or early PM.

 

[antharro]

Do we have any idea how long that last 458/0 will be around for? I'd quite like to get it to Reading and back. Also, one for the train sim folks, does anyone have a recording of the auto-announcer for that route?