Class 458/5

[Goldfish62]

*******s! The 17:05 is the train I get home. Will have to catch the already packed 17:20 now

And the 0724 is my morning train, because the 0712 is pretty much full by Ascot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Obviously they want it finished before the Winter timetable starts. Given they are cancelling a service and starting one short, I'd have thought that would cost SWT money.

However I'm sure they are looking at the overall picture rather than the costs of these 2 services. I doubt some of the commuters will be happy but they are probably very hard to please whatever happens.

Given that the Reading line services are already rammed it's hardly surprising that they (including me) won't be happy, especially as the project doesn't benefit the Reading line until 2018, and maybe well after that if the platform extensions get the chop under the impending CP5 cuts. Have you actually seen just how busy trains are in the morning peak?

 

[HeelBurton]

And the 0724 is my morning train, because the 0712 is pretty much full by Ascot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Given that the Reading line services are already rammed it's hardly surprising that they (including me) won't be happy, especially as the project doesn't benefit the Reading line until 2018, and maybe well after that if the platform extensions get the chop under the impending CP5 cuts. Have you actually seen just how busy trains are in the morning peak?

The 0724 from Reading is definitely going to be missed by many along that line. It's one of the busiest services I've ever worked, even though it runs directly behind the 0712 for most of its journey (fast to Wokingham) it's pretty depended upon by many.

All you need now is for the 0712 to be a 4 car.....

 

[hassaanhc]

At the moment both 2C90 and 1N93 are both shown on RTT as running next week which suggests that this decision was made very recently.

Presumably the 450-8 off 2S48 will form 2V49 instead of 1N93, and the 456-4 that does 5N54 from Ascot will drop back and form 1N93/2N51

The 1720 to Reading is still 458-8 so it might go on that?

But then again, the 2V49 1707 to Hounslow uses 455-8 that specially come from Wimbledon Park, and the only other service for the set is the 1843 to Shepperton, so arguably that would be more useful as it saves a 455-8 set.

Hard to guess this one (Personally I want 2V49 to stay 455 )

 

[SWT_USER]

07:23 Windsor to Waterloo has been short formed today and yesterday. Doesn't look good for next week if they can't even run the trains they say at the proper length.

 

[Siemens Staines]

The 1720 to Reading is still 458-8 so it might go on that?

But then again, the 2V49 1707 to Hounslow uses 455-8 that specially come from Wimbledon Park, and the only other service for the set is the 1843 to Shepperton, so arguably that would be more useful as it saves a 455-8 set.

Hard to guess this one (Personally I want 2V49 to stay 455 )

I agree its hard to guess. 2C53 the 1720 to Reading is off 2C50 so I don't think 2S48 will do 2C53 unless there is a more significant shuffle of the pack. The next Reading that comes in ECS is the 1750 and clearly 2S48 is not going to occupy a platform at Waterloo for an hour before doing that, but it could do via a cascaded ripple of other alterations to 450-8 diagrams. I assume from HarleyDavidson comment about not being able to take 10 car via Camberley that the earlier part of the 1N93 diagram (2S39/2S48) is changing from 450-8 to 458-10? If this is the case it in turn would mean 2S39 will no longer be part formed off 1T38 from Pompey, so maybe a wholesale set of diagram changes is on the cards? Time will tell.

 

[southern442]

Have you actually seen just how busy trains are in the morning peak?

I have seen how busy the trains are in the off-peak, and some of them are rammed. I dread to think what will happen on the Reading line after that service is removed.

 

[hassaanhc]

I agree its hard to guess. 2C53 the 1720 to Reading is off 2C50 so I don't think 2S48 will do 2C53 unless there is a more significant shuffle of the pack. The next Reading that comes in ECS is the 1750 and clearly 2S48 is not going to occupy a platform at Waterloo for an hour before doing that, but it could do via a cascaded ripple of other alterations to 450-8 diagrams. I assume from HarleyDavidson comment about not being able to take 10 car via Camberley that the earlier part of the 1N93 diagram (2S39/2S48) is changing from 450-8 to 458-10? If this is the case it in turn would mean 2S39 will no longer be part formed off 1T38 from Pompey, so maybe a wholesale set of diagram changes is on the cards? Time will tell.

Yeah it probably will cause changes to diagrams and reduce inter-working between routes. Using the document posted a few pages ago, all Hounslow to Waterloo via Brentford services from 0659 until 0901 are to be 10 cars, and in the evening all Waterloo to Hounslow services via both routes from 1607 until 1837 are to be 10. Currently some of those are formed of 450s or 455s that go to/from other routes.

 

[Goldfish62]

As of this week it looks like there's only one pair of 458/0 left diagrammed. So it appears that the 0724 from Reading on Friday will be my last ever journey on a 458/0.

 

[ChampsRacing]

It's been varying. Monday was 1 diagram only. Yesterday it was two diagrams.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And looking today 2 diagrams out again today. Was in Wimbledon Park Depot yesterday and noted 8014/8016/8028 sitting there and believe 8014 is the next to leave.

 

[Juniper Driver]

As of this week it looks like there's only one pair of 458/0 left diagrammed. So it appears that the 0724 from Reading on Friday will be my last ever journey on a 458/0.

My last drive of one was 19/06/15 on 458028+458006.

 

[swt_passenger]

For info from this afternoon's web chat:

Question: 28
Why is the conversion of Class 458 taking so long? This week SWT have announced the cancellation of a morning & evening train until further notice due to delays in the 458 conversions. The Reading line is already overcrowded, especially in the morning. This will make it worse.
Posted 23/09/2015 07:22:06
Answer:
The delay of the 458 conversion is caused by quality issues of our suppliers.
Additionally we now have to start overhauling the 458 trains. The initial plan was to do this after the conversion project.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are the 458s starting to hit their max mileage before needing overhaul?

 

[Siemens Staines]

Noted for today.

8506 - Out Of Traffic
8507 - Out Of Traffic

Not dead just yet

8007+8006 on 2C62 this evening

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the 458s starting to hit their max mileage before needing overhaul?

Clearly yes, surely that's the implication of the web chat answer?

But this was already discussed as being the case with 458015 earlier in the thread, which apparently spent some weeks out of use because it was out of hours.

 

[D365]

Clearly yes, surely that's the implication of the web chat answer?

Not meaning to be obnoxious, I know we all make oversights at time, but I think that some readers in various threads are less adept at grasping the message of a communication than others...

 

[ChampsRacing]

Not dead just yet

8007+8006 on 2C62 this evening

Yeah they've been out the past two days. 8014/8016/8028 where in the park when I took an empty into there Tuesday.

 

[infobleep]

Not meaning to be obnoxious, I know we all make oversights at time, but I think that some readers in various threads are less adept at grasping the message of a communication than others...

From reading the reply, I wouldn't automatically think ah train out of millage. Perhaps if I drive trains every day for a living it would be obvious to me.

I just be thinking why are they having to do it now and that might even be a follow up question.

It's very easy to take for granted what you know in your job. I'm sure u do it myself in my line of work.

 

[D365]

I just be thinking why are they having to do it now and that might even be a follow up question.

AIUI a unit should be sent in for overhaul as soon as it's out of mileage and not any earlier. Otherwise this can have repercussions for the timescale of overhauls in later years. In this instance, overhauls were to be coordinated with the Class 458/5 conversion programme, but owing to aforementioned delays this plan has to be altered.

Apologies if I sounded abrupt earlier, for various reasons I was a tad frustrated at the time.

 

[infobleep]

There is actually another question that answers thus more fully. I've been reading the web chat. Shame it doesn't work on mobile without fooling it to think your on a Desktop computer. I thought have through with passengers being travellers, having it working on a mobile would be seen as useful.

Question: 87

After waiting 4 years for you to repaint some trains and remove seats, I see that rather than increasing the number of services on the Reading line (as you keep promising), you are actually going to cut two peak time services. You claim this is to get the refurbishment done sooner. Where was this urgency for the past four years, and why all of a sudden have you decided the work must be finished off ASAP by butchering your service? Is this because someone at SWT's Christmas bonus is contingent on the works finishing? This will cause big disruption and mean that services either side of the cancelled services will be cancelled for a large number of stations as you will "non-stop" them for the rest of the journey once they are full. I would appreciate a bit more honesty in your propaganda on these 'extra' trains (many of which are nothing of the sort, they are just the same old trains with fewer seats and doors that fail to work).

Posted by Richard Ellis 23/09/2015 10:33:06

Answer:

Due to the invasive nature of work carried out and the complex emerging engineering issues, we now have to put more carriages into the program*to meet the revised completion date.* I can assure you that the decision to reduce the service was not taken lightly and was not based on anyone receiving a Christmas bonus.* Our engineering team are doing all they can to improve the reliability of this fleet to the high standards of the previous stock.**Currently there are no plans to run services, fast or non stop,*either side of the withdrawn services.* When complete the project will have there will be an additional 60 coaches in our 458 fleet alone

There are some interesting answers to other questions which whilst not going against what Managers for SWT have said in the past, do suggest that their comments were to keep the media happy when it was likely nothing much would actually be done until the next franchise and that would probably be a DfT lead requirement anyway. The reason they are doing nothing now may be perfectly reasonable but try telling the media that at times.... However that a going off topic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another useful answer:

Question: 55

Why don't you concentrate on getting the refurb of the 458's done properly and take a bit more time rather than try to speed things up and removing a peak train from the timetable? Obviously the refurb is not going well as the number of train faults of the new trains shows - currently 22 train formation updates all relating to the new 5/10 coach trains.

Posted by Andy 22/09/2015 14:56:36

Answer:

Removing any peak service is the last thing that we would want to do and is not taken lightly,*we had to gain approval from the Department for Transport to enable this to happen. All the other options that were considered would have had a greater impact in customers.

The refurb is of a very high specification and hopefully you will have noticed this from the units which are in service.*

We continue to oversee the project so that when the units*are completed they are of the highest standard.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why couldn't the overhaul work have been combined with the conversion work?

 

[TEW]

The overhauls shouldn't have been due until a while after the conversions finished, but because of the delays they have fallen at the same time now. It isn't cost efficient to do overhauls early.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is the overhaul that they're due for a mid-life overhaul?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is the overhaul that they're due for a mid-life overhaul?

It is something that has a defined life based on miles or hours run, so that really narrows it down to traction equipment and/or bogies.

The interior overhaul is supposedly included in the 5 car conversion.

 

[Goldfish62]

It is something that has a defined life based on miles or hours run, so that really narrows it down to traction equipment and/or bogies.

The interior overhaul is supposedly included in the 5 car conversion.

"supposedly" is the operative word in this case....

 

[WarrenTManager]

Is it possible that the remaining 458/0s will require major exams pre December? Especially if they have been clocking up the miles slightly quicker than expected?

All the /5 conversions that have gone up since 8015 (inclusive) need C4 (bogie/motor et al) done as well as the mileage bracket is at the top end (650k ish) The plan would have been that conversions would have been finished and then the C4s kicked in. Alas 'twas not to be......

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How long do C4s typically take per bogie?

 

[D365]

How long do C4s typically take per bogie?

Not sure how long a bogie overhaul takes, but if the programme works well enough a unit can enter the depot and simply have its bogies changed over.

 

[Matt Taylor]

A quick look on RTT shows that 2T14 0500 Portsmouth-Basingstoke goes from a 6 159 to an 8 450 in December, the 159s are needed to assist with the new services on the West Of England line so getting the 458s sorted a bit earlier presumably assists with the release of another pair of 450s.

 

[Bigfoot]

A few are poorly today. Not good with Twickenham and surrounding areas at capacity. One tripped the juice out last night at Queenstown Road.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Noticed the 47 loitering at Wimbledon.Don't know what it's up to.Couldn't see whether barrier wagons were there.