Class 458/5

[TEW]

Second. 8002 has been away for a few months now.

Think it's actually the third. 8001 was reported as going North recently.

 

[hassaanhc]

I remember posting a while back about the stop markers on the up platforms at Putney being partially covered up so they became 4 and 8 car stops instead of 4-6 and 8-10. They're still like that the last time I passed through there, I'm guessing it is linked to the building work going on resulting in part of the platform being closed? I wonder if all coaches will fit/have doors open on a 458/5 multiple until the markers are uncovered?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Think it's actually the third. 8001 was reported as going North recently.

It is indeed the third; both 458 001 and 458 002 have been away for a while now; one of them has even reached the painting stage.

 

[Pumbaa]

Aye - the next delivery from Alstom is imminent, resulting in another one being released for the programme.

 

[Skimble19]

Even better - I hope it's a sign the conversion rate is picking up. I believe all the 460s have been converted (if not delivered yet) yes?

There was plenty of GatEx liveried 460 coaches in the yard at Doncaster when i went through there last week so doubt theyve all been done..

 

[Goldfish62]

I remember posting a while back about the stop markers on the up platforms at Putney being partially covered up so they became 4 and 8 car stops instead of 4-6 and 8-10. They're still like that the last time I passed through there, I'm guessing it is linked to the building work going on resulting in part of the platform being closed? I wonder if all coaches will fit/have doors open on a 458/5 multiple until the markers are uncovered?

When I last looked the ADSO track balises were positioned for eight cars.

 

[Fudgefrog]

There was plenty of GatEx liveried 460 coaches in the yard at Doncaster when i went through there last week so doubt theyve all been done..

Could they not be ones that will be inserted into 458/0s to make 458/5s (and will perhaps converted at the same time)? I'm not sure if they've been converting all the 460 carriages at once, or initially only the ones that are forming new sets on their own?

Also does anyone know if the four 460 luggage cars have been converted yet, as they surely would require the most work of all the vehicles? And have they been able to use only parts (seats, handrails etc.) from the donor vehicles, or have new parts had to be commissioned? Are the 460 donors simply going to be stripped and scrapped, or will the bodies be kept for potential rebuild in case of damage to other cabs?

 

[cactustwirly]

The Ex Luggage cars will be stripped for useable parts, then scrapped. (I believe?)

 

[swt_passenger]

The Ex Luggage cars will be stripped for useable parts, then scrapped. (I believe?)

Four will be re-used and four will not. The four not being used are donating their 2 sets of normal passenger doors each (eight in total) to the four being kept. (as you'll probably know, the relevant carriages had roller shutter luggage doors at the cab end.)

This is how they end up using 60 of 64 vehicles altogether...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Four will be re-used and four will not. The four not being used are donating their 2 sets of normal passenger doors each (eight in total) to the four being kept. (as you'll probably know, the relevant carriages had roller shutter luggage doors at the cab end.)

This is how they end up using 60 of 64 vehicles altogether...

Could there have been any conceivable use for the remaining 4 cars as DVTs perhaps (assuming that other than the doors, not much equipment has been removed)...?
I suppose not, as it's not as if DVTs are in short supply, despite how useful a few LHCS sets might be in the North (costs/crew training notwithstanding).

Even when they were in use on GatEx, they were rather underused in the post-11/9 world. Will these be the first post-privatisation vehicles to be scrapped (other than those involved in accidents)?

 

[Monty]

I imagine the design costs and having to completely rebuild the vehicle into a DVT would be prohibitively expensive. The four remaining luggage vans are worth far more as a source of spares, items such as the bogies will be very valuable indeed in the years to come.

 

[WVL14]

From Monday the 458/5 is booked to work the following diagram

05+25 Wimbledon Park to Waterloo
0558 Waterloo to Windsor
0723 Windsor to Waterloo
0828 Waterloo to Windsor
0953 Windsor to Waterloo
1058 Waterloo to Windsor
1223 Windsor to Waterloo
1328 Waterloo to Windsor
1453 Windsor to Waterloo
1558 Waterloo to Windsor
1723 Windsor to Waterloo
1828 Waterloo to Windsor
1953 Windsor to Waterloo
2058 Waterloo to Windsor
2223 Windsor to Waterloo
23+30 Waterloo to Wimbledon Park

 

[hassaanhc]

Train is currently parked in Platform 20 at Waterloo, went and had a look at it :P looks like a brand new train. I got a few photos but can't upload till later . 1305 to Windsor is advertised on the screen so looks like it us in public service

 

[swt_passenger]

Train is currently parked in Platform 20 at Waterloo, went and had a look at it :P looks like a brand new train. I got a few photos but can't upload till later . 1305 to Windsor is advertised on the screen so looks like it us in public service

If you see the BBC's Paul Clifton could you gently remind him it is going to Windsor?

 

[Y186520]

If you see the BBC's Paul Clifton could you gently remind him it is going to Windsor?

Just seen his report on the lunchtime programme. He doesn't mention Reading. The man in the studio said the trains will run to Berkshire.

Paul Clifton's report is from platform 20 at Waterloo and includes interview
with the driver of the special run. I can't recall driver's being interviewed like
this very often.

Should get a repeat of the piece on this evening South Today.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just seen his report on the lunchtime programme. He doesn't mention Reading. The man in the studio said the trains will run to Berkshire.

I did send the BBC at Southampton a suitable email comment about the Reading error the other day. Perhaps it worked...

 

[hassaanhc]

The few photos I managed to take are here, sadly I was very short on time and wasn't able to hang around.

 

[jon0844]

Why the huge posters to say what coach it is?

 

[transmanche]

The few photos I managed to take are here, sadly I was very short on time and wasn't able to hang around.

Very good. I think most passengers would be convinced they're brand new trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why the huge posters to say what coach it is?

Perhaps they'll leave them made up in 10 car pairs, and it is something to do with the ASDO announcements?

Stands to reason it will be different to the way others do it.

Pumbaa will probably be along soon with the correct answer I hope...

 

[Monty]

Perhaps they'll leave them made up in 10 car pairs, and it is something to do with the ASDO

It is to assist the guard and to inform passengers what carriage they need to be in for SDO stops. The The current PIS is not able to inform passengers what coach they are travelling or in fact that a SDO stop is coming and they will need to move forward. What I don't know is why letters were chosen over numbers.

 

[TEW]

I guess numbers would be confusing because when the train reverses they'll be in the wrong order. Southern use numbers, but the numbering is done by the PIS so coach 1 is always at the front. FGW use letters on their HSTs for reference and SDO announcements always refer to the letters.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wan't it reported earlier in this thread that the 458/5s would come with a modified/changed PIS though, specifically to deal with ASDO?

 

[Pumbaa]

There is still a problem getting the PIS to work properly. It needs a refurbed 458/0 to come back first before its rolled out, to make sure both talk to each other correctly.

But it's the first I've heard/seen of the letters!

 

[Fudgefrog]

Is there a way to tell a cab is one of the ex-luggage vans? Are the cabs in today's set(s) both/all 'standard' (non luggage coach) vehicles?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a way to tell a cab is one of the ex-luggage vans? Are the cabs in today's set(s) both/all 'standard' (non luggage coach) vehicles?

Reports elsewhere suggest that the end cars delivered so far are all 'standard' - they've kept their original 460 carriage numbers. Makes sense, because they'd logically complete the 'easier eight' before the 'difficult four', even if they were all started at the same time.

There is info on http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/news/swt/2013-458_5earlydays1.html which shows the carriage numbers for the first two units delivered, 458531 and 534

 

[samuelmorris]

Impressive job actually, I'm pleasantly surprised by how well this has turned out.
Interesting that they labelled it 'Coach K' on the inside - is the intention to permanently leave these units coupled in 10-car pairs?

 

[hassaanhc]

Interesting that they labelled it 'Coach K' on the inside - is the intention to permanently leave these units coupled in 10-car pairs?

I was thinking that as well, how long before we find say an A in the middle/E at the end (no issue) or worse, two units together with the same letter ranges? (which is a BIG problem ) I'd hate to be the person going around sorting those out! :P Though if they've been on the ball then they've made the cards double sided for easy swapping?

 

[Monty]

The cards are reversible and the units will be split at Waterloo regularly for 5 car operation for the off peak Rounders and Weybridges.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It is to assist the guard and to inform passengers what carriage they need to be in for SDO stops. The The current PIS is not able to inform passengers what coach they are travelling or in fact that a SDO stop is coming and they will need to move forward. What I don't know is why letters were chosen over numbers.

Letters is the more traditional way of doing it.