Class 458/5

[Uzair]

Ah cool. It does indeed look better than the pictures from a few months ago of it at Doncaster!

 

[Emblematic]

Spotted a 458 being hauled though Wimbledon earlier on what must have been this working: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O44430/2013/12/05/advanced
So, would that be the first of the 458/0s off for conversion? Sorry, didn't catch the unit number.

 

[traji00]

I've just noticed they don't have a "pantograph well". Is that also true on the original 458's?

 

[4-6-2 Coast]

I'm guessing no one has been able to get a quick picture of it on the runs it's been doing?

Video of it here:
http://vt.tumblr.com/tumblr_mxbtv3q9qt1s5pzcp.mp4#_=_

 

[Monty]

I've just noticed they don't have a "pantograph well". Is that also true on the original 458's?

No, the 458/0s do have a pantograph well. It's just the units that are made up exclusively of ex460 vehicles that lack one.

I have been told I will do my 458/5 traction training sometime next week I will report back with any thing of interest I notice.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Almost makes me wish I was still at Strawberry Hill, I won't be learning them at Fratton!

 

[455driver]

Almost makes me wish I was still at Strawberry Hill, I won't be learning them at Fratton!

Neither will I.:cry:

Going to miss them but at least I will get the 456s to play with.

 

[swt_passenger]

Spotted a 458 being hauled though Wimbledon earlier on what must have been this working: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O44430/2013/12/05/advanced
So, would that be the first of the 458/0s off for conversion? Sorry, didn't catch the unit number.

Identified elsewhere as 458002

 

[Goldfish62]

Identified elsewhere as 458002

8001/2 are supposed to be the first ones to be converted so I wonder if 8001 has already gone, unnoticed.

 

[Monty]

8001/2 are supposed to be the first ones to be converted so I wonder if 8001 has already gone, unnoticed.

8001 is still in service and is currently attached to 8028. She has not been sent away for conversion yet, had those two units this morning for one of my Readings.

 

[David Goddard]

458/5s presently undertaking test runs three days per week between Staines and Reading on weekdays:

5Z11: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04631/2013/12/12/advanced
5Z12: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04632/2013/12/12/advanced
5Z13: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04633/2013/12/12/advanced
5Z14: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04634/2013/12/12/advanced
5Z15: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04635/2013/12/12/advanced
5Z16: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q04637/2013/12/12/advanced

 

[Juniper Driver]

I will have a conversion course on them just like I did for the 158's.

 

[Lockwood]

I saw these parked up at Wimbledon on Saturday next to each other - I was expecting to see them joined, if they were publicly visible at all for some reason

They don't look anything like as bad as people are making out, to me.

 

[Goldfish62]

Anyone know if the first two units are any closer to entering service? I notice they're still on test between Staines and Reading, but I was talking to a Strawberry Hill driver the other day and he said that he'd been given no info on when crew training might take place.

My money's on the 456s entering service first, and maybe even hell freezing over..

I also notice that Open Train Times now shows summer timetables, but the promised additional peak hours Reading trains don't feature - presumably a knock-on effect of the interminable delay with the 458/5s.

 

[TEW]

I'd say it's pretty much a certainty the 456s will enter service first, crew training has apparently started either now or will be starting imminently.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'd say it's pretty much a certainty the 456s will enter service first, crew training has apparently started either now or will be starting imminently.

Thanks.

Is there actually any incentive for SWT to get the 458/5s into service? There doesn't seem to be any urgency with the testing/mileage accumulation. Southern had an incentive to get the 377/6s into service as the 456s were coming off lease, so seemed to pull out all the stops to get them up and running. SWT have no such commitments.

Presumably they can sit back, say the trains are too unreliable to put into service and blame DfT/Porterbrook/Wabtec. And in the meantime the crush on the Windsor lines goes on.

Does anyone know if there's a point that SWT can to get to when they can say that the trains are not fit for purpose and cancel the order?

 

[Domh245]

I don't think that the 458/5s have had many faults in the operational sense, just a few minor teething trouble incidents. The conversion however is a different matter because of all the corrosion. It is not a case of "not fit for purpose" but more "contract is running massively delayed"

 

[TEW]

The two new services which are being introduced as a result of the introduction of the 456s are in the timetable from May 2014:
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W13621/2014-05-21
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W13622/2014-05-21

 

[Goldfish62]

The two new services which are being introduced as a result of the introduction of the 456s are in the timetable from May 2014:
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W13621/2014-05-21
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W13622/2014-05-21

So they are, but the two extra Reading line trains in each peak which are supposed to be introduced in May do not appear. However, Open Train Times isn't completely accurate as the Ascot to Guildford services are shown as having First class, but as I understand it these will be the first services to get the 456s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think that the 458/5s have had many faults in the operational sense, just a few minor teething trouble incidents. The conversion however is a different matter because of all the corrosion. It is not a case of "not fit for purpose" but more "contract is running massively delayed"

It must be more significant than minor problems. Back in October SWT were saying the first pair would be in service in November. Something is clearly not right, or alternatively, SWT aren't really that bothered about getting them into service.

 

[TEW]

So they are, but the two extra Reading line trains in each peak which are supposed to be introduced in May do not appear. However, Open Train Times isn't completely accurate as the Ascot to Guildford services are shown as having First class, but as I understand it these will be the first services to get the 456s.

Indeed, but it's not really a surprise that they have been delayed. To have any 458/5s in service by May would be a start.
It's assumed that that will be the case, but they could well just been incorrectly entered in the system and they won't convey First Class.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, but it's not really a surprise that they have been delayed. To have any 458/5s in service by May would be a start.
It's assumed that that will be the case, but they could well just been incorrectly entered in the system and they won't convey First Class.

Given that the main reason for reopening P20 at Waterloo from May was to provide extra capacity in the peaks on the Windsor side for the extra Reading services it looks like it won't now be needed in the short term. Indeed, I can't see any trains on Open Train Times using it from May.

 

[cjmillsnun]

So they are, but the two extra Reading line trains in each peak which are supposed to be introduced in May do not appear. However, Open Train Times isn't completely accurate as the Ascot to Guildford services are shown as having First class, but as I understand it these will be the first services to get the 456s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It must be more significant than minor problems. Back in October SWT were saying the first pair would be in service in November. Something is clearly not right, or alternatively, SWT aren't really that bothered about getting them into service.

SWT are probably holding off until the next pair are delivered. My guess is that they want another pair to start testing before they release the first into service.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWT are probably holding off until the next pair are delivered. My guess is that they want another pair to start testing before they release the first into service.

Yes, that would be the pair that was due in December but never appeared. There's also the platform monitors andd stop boards yet to fully install, and there's no sign of that happening yet. Strangely, some stations have the 10 car boards covered up, while others don't. Seems a bit illogical.

 

[Class377/5]

Yes, that would be the pair that was due in December but never appeared. There's also the platform monitors andd stop boards yet to fully install, and there's no sign of that happening yet. Strangely, some stations have the 10 car boards covered up, while others don't. Seems a bit illogical.

SWT already run 10 car 444 (230m) which wont be the same length as 10 car 458/5 (200m) so hence hiding some boards and not others.

 

[jopsuk]

are there any stations/platforms at stations where both 10 car 458s or 455/455/456 and 10 car 444s (10 car 158/159 formations would be 230m too) will stop, and where you might want a different "stop" position?

 

[TEW]

The only time 10-car 444s and 458/5s would call at the same platform is when mainline services are diverted via Staines. Then 10-car 444s would call at the Windsor line platforms at Clapham Junction, which previously would only have accommodated up to 8-carriages.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The only time 10-car 444s and 458/5s would call at the same platform is when mainline services are diverted via Staines. Then 10-car 444s would call at the Windsor line platforms at Clapham Junction, which previously would only have accommodated up to 8-carriages.

Last time there were the diversions there was also one service an hour (I think?) that called at Staines that was a 10-car 444. I might be wrong - I was only passing through the station when I saw it announced.

 

[TEW]

Normally the service which calls at Staines is the combined Waterloo-Alton/Basingstoke service which should be either an 8 or 12 car 450 depending on the time of day/frequency. Once the 450s have the ASDO fitted they would be able to take advantage of the longer platforms there and have 10 rather than 8 carriages open.

 

[Goldfish62]

The only time 10-car 444s and 458/5s would call at the same platform is when mainline services are diverted via Staines. Then 10-car 444s would call at the Windsor line platforms at Clapham Junction, which previously would only have accommodated up to 8-carriages.

Richmond has the 10 car stop board on both platforms covered, yet at Twickenham, for example, on Platform 4 it's not covered, but on Platform 3 there's no new stop boards at all. All a bit mish-mash at the moment.

Does anyone know if the runs that the 458/5s are doing between Staines and Reading at the moment are now driver training rather than testing? They're no longer opening doors at Platforms and testing the ASDO, which suggests it's moved on to training.

 

[Monty]

Training has been cancelled until further notice, Alstom are going to complete the fault free running before crew training will recommence.