Class 458/5

[swt_passenger]

Blue will allow them to be used on the Portsmouth direct in due course. They don't like the white livery down there.

Or something like that anyway...

 

[Pumbaa]

Minor point, but given the sort of services these are for, does the blue livery mark a change in policy/ I'd have thought the red, as with the 455s, would be more appropriate- aren't these for "inner suburban"?

I'd call the Windsor line outer suburban, but whatever. As long as it's not unfinished metal, I'm sure the majority of punters don't give a ****.

 

[87015]

Very much so! Still need to scratch in my last few over the next couple of months!

Do we know when the first ones are likely to get taken out of service? I've only had a handful, could make the effort to spend a few evenings scooping them in now the weather is a bit better.

 

[Pumbaa]

Do we know when the first ones are likely to get taken out of service? I've only had a handful, could make the effort to spend a few evenings scooping them in now the weather is a bit better.

A reply on another thread or maybe WNXX suggested a few ex-460 sets will be delivered first, maybe 3 or 4 before 458s start getting converted. So hopefully we have most of the year.

 

[455driver]

As Pumbaa has stated, the first 4 (I think) 458/5s in service will be formed entirely of ex 460 carriages and once they are available the first two 450/5 will be converted back to a normal 450 to displace two 458/0 on Waterloo to Readings to enable those 458/0 to be converted to 458/5s, so its basically a 3 way thing all happening at the same time.

Obviously the work on the 450/5 is much less than the 458 work.

Thats how I read it.

 

[Pumbaa]

That too is my understanding.

 

[ChampsRacing]

That makes all perfect sense really. We are tight on stock as it is, makes sense doing it that way.

 

[rebmcr]

Some appear to be confused with current changes to the 458 and 460s
The position is:-
460s - If the owners, builders operators and Wabtec all say 125mph (and they did 16/4) I would be inclined to accept they were geared for125mph
Regearing 458/5s to 75mph for services with frequent stops and where the possible top speed is nowhere near 100mph (never mind 125mph) must be the right decision
Corrosion is the cause of the delays but we were assured 16/4 that the problem is round the windows and not the front ends
The delay means that the current planned delivery of the first 2x5-car 458/5s to SWT is late May/June(2013!)
All 458/5s will have 458 cabs with 'normal' gangways - they will not be Desiro ones
Brian

Hang on, they're third rail! I thought that had a blanket 100mph cap?

 

[Manchester77]

Hang on, they're third rail! I thought that had a blanket 100mph cap?

Them being gearing to 125 mph provide better acceleration it doesn't actually mean they run to 125 mph

 

[Helvellyn]

Minor point, but given the sort of services these are for, does the blue livery mark a change in policy/ I'd have thought the red, as with the 455s, would be more appropriate- aren't these for "inner suburban"?

Rumour is that they will only be on the Weybridge/Windsor/Hounslow services for a couple of years! Plans between 2014-19 to improve the power supply from Virginia Water to Reading, plus lengthen platforms would allow 10-car trains to operate there. The new traction motors on the 455s is to apparently reduce the amount of maintenance they need, so it increases capacity at Wimbledon Depot for new stock, that allows another cascade! In short, the rumour is: -

• 30 new 5-car suburban units for Windsor/Weybridge/Hounslow services
• 458/5s back on the Reading services (first class added back)
• 450s cascaded to the mainline routes to allow more 12-car trains in the peak (which might mean 10-car formations replaced by 12-cars as on the Portsmouth direct)
• Further Desiro cascades on the mainline - 12-car replaces 10-car = 10-car replaces 8-car = 8-car replaces 5-car = 5-car replaces 4-car.

All sounds very complicated, but also makes some weird sense. We're being told the new traction packages on the 455s is to increase capacity at Wimbledon Depot; concentrating the Deisros on the mainline services would be better for maintaining them at Northam.

 

[Matt Taylor]

More 450s vice 444s on the Portsmouth line? I certainly hope not as I much prefer working 444s to 450s.

 

[CC 72100]

More 450s vice 444s on the Portsmouth line?

I think I can hear the Portsmouth commuters jumping for joy at this prospect from here!

 

[455driver]

Them being gearing to 125 mph provide better acceleration it doesn't actually mean they run to 125 mph

The longer the gearing (higher maximim speed) the slower the acceleration.
A car accelerates faster in 2nd gear but has a lower maximum speed than it does in 4th gear with everything else being equal.

 

[Goldfish62]

I see they've managed to remove the ribbon glazing so the single coaches inserted into existing 458s won't look odd. Ian Walmsley in his original article said it was being retained, along with the skirting panels, which is also being removed.

 

[Helvellyn]

I see they've managed to remove the ribbon glazing so the single coaches inserted into existing 458s won't look odd. Ian Walmsley in his original article said it was being retained, along with the skirting panels, which is also being removed.

I wonder if it was removed due to the corrosion issues discovered once they started stripping the vehicles down (Corrosion being the reason they are late so we're being told)? Would make sense to have normal style frames mounted in the window spaces.

 

[43021HST]

More images here:

http://antony-christie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/doncaster-wabtec-class-4585-conversion.html

I am curious to see how the 'Desiro' front end will look.

A damn sight better than the current front ends the 460s carry.

Does this whole project remind you slightly of typical southern ingenuity?

 

[bronzeonion]

I wonder if it was removed due to the corrosion issues discovered once they started stripping the vehicles down (Corrosion being the reason they are late so we're being told)? Would make sense to have normal style frames mounted in the window spaces.

I'm surprised theyre made of steel!

 

[455driver]

Does this whole project remind you slightly of typical southern ingenuity?

As does the re-powering of the 455s.

 

[pbaran]

I see they've managed to remove the ribbon glazing so the single coaches inserted into existing 458s won't look odd. Ian Walmsley in his original article said it was being retained, along with the skirting panels, which is also being removed.

Are you sure? Have a look at the photo in this link:

http://ow.ly/i/1Urrz

They seem to have retained what you call the ribbon glazing.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if it was removed due to the corrosion issues discovered once they started stripping the vehicles down (Corrosion being the reason they are late so we're being told)? Would make sense to have normal style frames mounted in the window spaces.

On the 458s a lot of the windows (not just those with hoppers) leak so I wouldn't be surprised that once the frames come off them for strip-down/repaint more corrosion becomes apparent.

 

[Manchester77]

According to May's issue of Modern Railways the first two sets will be ready for training and testing by June and passenger service six weeks later

 

[Goldfish62]

Are you sure? Have a look at the photo in this link:

http://ow.ly/i/1Urrz

They seem to have retained what you call the ribbon glazing.

Oh yes - it had been removed in the earlier photos but since replaced. As for "what you call ribbon glazing" that is what it's called, hence why I referred to it as such.

Maybe one reason why blue was chosen instead of red as it provides less contrast with the black of the glazing than red would.

 

[Helvellyn]

Just hope that the ex-458/0 vehicles get black painted window bands added when they go through the conversion, otherwise the ex-460 vehicles will stand out a mile with their ribbon glazing.

 

[SprinterMan]

Just hope that the ex-458/0 vehicles get black painted window bands added when they go through the conversion, otherwise the ex-460 vehicles will stand out a mile with their ribbon glazing.

That has never bothered the SR before, with the 508 trailers in 455 units :P

 

[Goldfish62]

Just hope that the ex-458/0 vehicles get black painted window bands added when they go through the conversion, otherwise the ex-460 vehicles will stand out a mile with their ribbon glazing.

I agree. The all-ex-460 units should look impressive, though.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Just hope that the ex-458/0 vehicles get black painted window bands added when they go through the conversion, otherwise the ex-460 vehicles will stand out a mile with their ribbon glazing.

Looking at the window apertures with the ribbon glazing removed, they look similar to the ones on the 458. Perhaps the 458 will be retrofitted with ribbon glazing. (unlikely I know)

 

[387star]

well these things are always late
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh yes - it had been removed in the earlier photos but since replaced. As for "what you call ribbon glazing" that is what it's called, hence why I referred to it as such.

Maybe one reason why blue was chosen instead of red as it provides less contrast with the black of the glazing than red would.

They have to distinguish thems from the Thatcher era stock somehow
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Blue will allow them to be used on the Portsmouth direct in due course. They don't like the white livery down there.

Or something like that anyway...

I'd happily take them on that line! Those seats are comfy
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
SWT could advertise in the timetable what services are 444 on the ports line and charge a premium :P

 

[cjmillsnun]

well these things are always late
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They have to distinguish thems from the Thatcher era stock somehow
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'd happily take them on that line! Those seats are comfy
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
SWT could advertise in the timetable what services are 444 on the ports line and charge a premium :P

As someone who now lives in Petersfield, I couldn't agree more.

 

[southern442]

Blue will allow them to be used on the Portsmouth direct in due course. They don't like the white livery down there.

Or something like that anyway...

actually, they will be geared for 75 mph, so I don't know what will happen.
They should of just kept the original gearing and made the line 100mph between Virginia water and Reading, so they could have a new fast service.

 

[swt_passenger]

actually, they will be geared for 75 mph, so I don't know what will happen.
They should of just kept the original gearing and made the line 100mph between Virginia water and Reading, so they could have a new fast service.

... Er actually, we know about that (75 mph) already - it was discussed at length earlier in this very thread. Sending them to Pompey was a separate joke about the colour, not meant to be taken seriously, almost a month later... :roll:

In any case, the primary stock used on the Reading services will be 100 mph 450s, so your main point is wrong anyway.