Class 458/5

[D365]

It's hard to believe that 8001/8002 will be 17 years old next year.

That's round about my age!

 

[jopsuk]

were the 458s the very first "all new" post privitisation passenger stock? As far as I know the 168s were the first, but they were an existing design, indeed pretty much an existing order, held back for the 1000 day drought

 

[Monty]

I believe so, they were certainly the first post privatisation train to appear on the former Southern Region.

 

[jopsuk]

Hmm. I realise this a tangent. Appears Prism (orignal LTS Rail, then c2c, operator) ordered the 357s in March 1997. However, 357s are based on 168s, which are were an evolution of 166s to some extent.

That leaves it as a shoot out between the 458s and 332s for first "original" post-privitisation stock.

 

[D365]

So Aventra is merely an evolution of Electrostar [according to numerous people, not sure how true this is] which is an evolution of Clubman/Turbostar and Networker Turbo/Electric. These of course being based on BREL designs means the Aventra-Electrostar heritage is ancient?!

(Sorry, major digression)

 

[southern442]

So Aventra is merely an evolution of Electrostar [according to numerous people, not sure how true this is] which is an evolution of Clubman/Turbostar and Networker Turbo/Electric. These of course being based on BREL designs means the Aventra-Electrostar heritage is ancient?!

(Sorry, major digression)

Yes. :?

 

[Electrostar]

I clearly remember the railway mags writing about the GatEx order. It wa accompanied by an artist's impression which is available towards the end of this page on the Railway Centre. http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition Pictures Loco/Artists_emu.html

Not only did the final product look quite different (nose cone and door windows) but this artist's impression incorporated the shadow GatEx franchise livery as worn by 73s. Note the name on the roof, a feature which I believe was carried on to the 460s apparently as a marketing tool to attract the gaze of passengers travelling on planes landing at Gatwick.

I want to say SWT ordered their Junipers at the same time but I don't remember seeing an artist's impression.

 

[Eagle]

Note the name on the roof, a feature which I believe was carried on to the 460s apparently as a marketing tool to attract the gaze of passengers travelling on planes landing at Gatwick.

Presumably to go with the big British National Rail logo on the roof of Gatwick station building.

 

[Y186520]

I have a message that 458531 was moved 7Z56 2208 Doncaster Wimbledon arriving around 0600 this morning.

Can anyone confirm this move ? Thanks.

 

[cjohnson]

Is this another unit making its way down to Wimbledon? Any news on estimated in-service dates?

 

[swt_passenger]

I have a message that 458531 was moved 7Z56 2208 Doncaster Wimbledon arriving around 0600 this morning.

Can anyone confirm this move ? Thanks.

It is being shown live on realtime trains but not starting that early:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91256/2013/10/22/advanced

The passing time details being altered during the trip shows that it is actually happening. If you compare the same diagram for Monday evening (when it didn't run) you can see the different outputs.

 

[Boothby97]

458831 enroute to Wimbledon, behind 47727 and barriers

 

[Y186520]

It is being shown live on realtime trains but not starting that early:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91256/2013/10/22/advanced

The passing time details being altered during the trip shows that it is actually happening. If you compare the same diagram for Monday evening (when it didn't run) you can see the different outputs.

Thanks for reply. Confusion sorted.

Have been advised November 17th for driver training and hope to get 1 unit in service by the end of the year. 5000 fault free miles for 1st unit then 1000 for next before acceptance.
With the weather conditions at this time of year and ongoing signalling faults this may well be a challenge.

 

[158722]

Any confirmation of the vehicle numbers which form 458831?

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks for reply. Confusion sorted.

Have been advised November 17th for driver training and hope to get 1 unit in service by the end of the year. 5000 fault free miles for 1st unit then 1000 for next before acceptance.
With the weather conditions at this time of year and ongoing signalling faults this may well be a challenge.

The programme seems to be ever-slipping. Last public advice from SWT was first unit delivered during September (which happened), public service for first pair during November and first pair of existing 458s being sent away before the end of the year.

Why's it all taking so long? It's not as if these are new trains. 3-, 4- and 8-car versions have been running around for years.

 

[Muzer]

Apparently the 460s had an unexpectedly high level of corrosion, which presumably required some parts to be repaired/replaced.

 

[Goldfish62]

I clearly remember the railway mags writing about the GatEx order. It wa accompanied by an artist's impression which is available towards the end of this page on the Railway Centre. http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition Pictures Loco/Artists_emu.html

Not only did the final product look quite different (nose cone and door windows) but this artist's impression incorporated the shadow GatEx franchise livery as worn by 73s. Note the name on the roof, a feature which I believe was carried on to the 460s apparently as a marketing tool to attract the gaze of passengers travelling on planes landing at Gatwick.

I want to say SWT ordered their Junipers at the same time but I don't remember seeing an artist's impression.

There was an artist's impression, showing the train the old stripey Stagecoach bus livery and with a curved front - presumably intended to have sliding plug gangway doors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apparently the 460s had an unexpectedly high level of corrosion, which presumably required some parts to be repaired/replaced.

Which suggests that the 458s may have the same problem....

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the main reason was supposedly unexpected corrosion issues with the ex 460 vehicles - which is somewhat surprising given their relatively short life so far.

I wonder if the ex 458 vehicles will have any surprises in store when they start converting them?

 

[Monty]

I wonder if the ex 458 vehicles will have any surprises in store when they start converting them?

I would not at all be surprised if quite a bit of work was required to bring The original 458 fleet up to 458/5 standards. The units as a whole have been worked pretty hard over the last seventeen years (or it almost certainly feels like it), the driving cabs and toilets are in an absolutely dreadful condition and they are in dire need of a repaint and refurbishment.

 

[Eagle]

Have the 458s had any refurbishments before? If not, 16 years is rather a long time to go without one.

 

[Monty]

They have had minor work carried out on their 1st class compartments and toilets, but other than that they are pretty much as built.

 

[fgwrich]

If anyone is interested in it's arrival, There was a small section this evening on BBC South Today with Paul Clifton in Wimbledon Depot watching it's arrival. Interestingly, the interior does seem to be more of an SWT HC Gat Ex Hybrid - largely refurbished into SWT colours with some ex Gat Ex stickers still remaining, 2+2 Seats throught with what appeared to be like armrests - The former SPT Junipers have a similar set up and with a fair number of HC style grab handles from the floor to the luggage racks.

Should be on BBC Iplayer later tonight.

 

[Pumbaa]

May have something to do with the fact the media event was more inflexible than the delivery... Lots of fiddly bits and finishing touches to do.

 

[southern442]

If anyone is interested in it's arrival, There was a small section this evening on BBC South Today with Paul Clifton in Wimbledon Depot watching it's arrival. Interestingly, the interior does seem to be more of an SWT HC Gat Ex Hybrid - largely refurbished into SWT colours with some ex Gat Ex stickers still remaining, 2+2 Seats throught with what appeared to be like armrests - The former SPT Junipers have a similar set up and with a fair number of HC style grab handles from the floor to the luggage racks.

Should be on BBC Iplayer later tonight.

'passengers may remember these on the GatEx a few years ago...'


AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH! THEY LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!


silly BBC

 

[Eagle]

Only from the front. They're basically the same from the side (apart from the relivery, of course).

 

[southern442]

Only from the front. They're basically the same from the side (apart from the relivery, of course).

Yes but how is any non-enthusiast going to 'remember those' when it looks like a brand new train :roll:

Also they got the 458's and the 460's mixed up when they said about the first trains ordered after privatization I believe...

 

[Y186520]

May have something to do with the fact the media event was more inflexible than the delivery... Lots of fiddly bits and finishing touches to do.

Newsnow railtravel section had the following report from ITV Meridian television but it disappeared during the morning. It gave the impression of train being in service today. Also says they are new.



5:38am, Tue 22 Oct 2013 New carriages on South West trains
New carriages on South West Trains
Last updated Tue 22 Oct 2013
UK
Reading
Basingstoke
Windsor
South West Trains

Overcrowding on South West Trains could be reduced from today.

The first of more than a hundred new train carriages will come into service. It's hoped they will ease crowding on routes to Windsor, Reading, Wokingham, Bracknell, Ascot and Basingstoke.

 

[jrhilton]

This video (from 2:19 onwards) shows what the converted 458/5 looks like for anyone who has not yet seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tE2SYZlaNQ

I have to say from the outside it looks very good in SWT blue livery.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Apparently the 460s had an unexpectedly high level of corrosion, which presumably required some parts to be repaired/replaced.

There were holes where the water could get into because the bungs weren't put into from new and it couldn't get out = corrosion

 

[TEW]

They have had minor work carried out on their 1st class compartments and toilets, but other than that they are pretty much as built.

They've had new flooring fitted and the seat covers have been replaced fairly recently too, just with the same covering, they are noticeably brighter though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If anyone is interested in it's arrival, There was a small section this evening on BBC South Today with Paul Clifton in Wimbledon Depot watching it's arrival. Interestingly, the interior does seem to be more of an SWT HC Gat Ex Hybrid - largely refurbished into SWT colours with some ex Gat Ex stickers still remaining, 2+2 Seats throught with what appeared to be like armrests - The former SPT Junipers have a similar set up and with a fair number of HC style grab handles from the floor to the luggage racks.

Should be on BBC Iplayer later tonight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03dt20s/South_Today_22_10_2013/

At about 7:45 in.