TrainTrackJack
Member
Late arriving into Worcester, even later leaving. From my vantage point up close to the PCs it seems the drivers seats and most of the instruments have been removed including the power/brake handles.
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Class 43 disposals
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I wonder if this destruction order malarkey might have something to do with the cabs..... bare with me!
Given that they're fibreglass and of little value to the scrapman, but presumably wouldn't be remotely cheap if one were required from a stored loco as a replacement, could the ROSCO be looking to ensure that the spares market stays closely controlled?! Seems unlikely I know, but then so does any other possibility!
Given that they're fibreglass and of little value to the scrapman, but presumably wouldn't be remotely cheap if one were required from a stored loco as a replacement, could the ROSCO be looking to ensure that the spares market stays closely controlled?! Seems unlikely I know, but then so does any other possibility!
43096
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There's an assumption that there is a destruction order on them. There has been no confirmation of that from a reliable source: all we have is someone on here saying "I believe...". That's not exactly solid gen in my book!
brad465
Veteran Member
The drag has been caught on video at Pershore:
That's a fair observation!
GEC465
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SIMS group normally have total destruction orders placed
Not sure they do as such. It's just that their setup with the big shredder doesn't allow for members of the public coming on site and picking through stuff. Unlike at Booth's where stuff hangs around for a while, Sims dispatch stuff quickly and let their sorting machines decide what's what.
Indeed, though in this case PB have sent some of their engineers down this week to remove what they can from them, so the pair will be around for a few more days to come. Unlike a Mk3, the two PCs are likely to be recycled fairly quickly though given how much more metal they contain.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
There is a total destruction order. It is to do with moderation of competition from back in the early days of privatisation. This has been confirmed by a very reliable source in Richard Benyon, the chap who has that yard full of loco cabs. He wants a HST cab but so far the only way he can obtain one is by acquiring a complete power car and that will set him back £25000 in purchase and transport costs.
Richard Benyon said:
www.facebook.com
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There is a total destruction order. It is to do with moderation of competition from back in the early days of privatisation. This has been confirmed by a very reliable source in Richard Benyon, the chap who has that yard full of loco cabs. He wants a HST cab but so far the only way he can obtain one is by acquiring a complete power car and that will set him back £25000 in purchase and transport costs.
This is a very illuminating post, appreciated!
Out of interest, why did this arrangement not apply to coaching stock etc; presumably only locomotives were considered to be sufficiently risk-laden?
GEC465
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I wonder if any pictures have surfaced yet
Pictures of...?
If it's pictures of the scrapping process, no photos have ever emerged from Sims of anything being scrapped, so I don't see why it would be different now. There is no view of the site from any public place.
TrainTrackJack
Member
Pictures do exist of the 442s, 313s, 142s and 91s being ripped apart there.
ChilternTurbo
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I've seen a few pictures on Facebook mostly from Allelys Heavy Haulage page of 442s and Mk.4s inside the Sims compound at Newport Docks. Given how quickly Sims process stock there's probably a good chance that the HSTs have already been shredded...
TrainTrackJack
Member
You are probably correct. 43061 has definitely already gone and 43075 is nearly gone. Remember that Porterbrook sent a team of fitters to remove useful components which gave them somewhat the longest stay in the yard of anything, for about 4 days!
Do we know whether the cabs were removed, or did they go through the crusher?
If a TDO is imposed by the Rosco from BR days, and scrapping it ends the liability, then how does selling it whole rather than parts nullify that liabilty ?
Does the new would be purchaser inherit a TDO requirement as part of a sale contract ? - is preservation now full of objects with a delayed death sentence ?
These two power cars are suggested to be stripped internally already before Sims, then whatever clause around a BR era TDO is surely breached already, as they arent going “Total” for destruction ? - why does a cab as a part differ from a power unit as a part ?
ive a piece of a class 315 and 142 in my garage, does this mean a Rosco is liable still for them, and if I dont want them any more am I obliged to TDO them..nothing was listed in the details on ebay… So I really dont think so.
is this really just an excuse by the Rosco to brush off outside industry parts enquiries, from the public by offering the alternative of just offloading a full vehicle and letting that buying party deal with the bits they want ?
Similarly for the scrapper, just processing it and getting shut is easier than letting it sit around for third parties to come and strip over a longer period. (the value of bits to enthusiasts isnt understood and so the additional commercial value is being missed).
I remeber in the 1980’s buses being wholesale scrapped, but the scrappies suddenly started a huge spare parts business, and as the buses were originally government funded, transferred for scrap at low value and suddenly gave a pot of gold to the scrappies there was a big media fuss. The result was delibrate destructive damage being inflicted at the depot, and the buses being towed to the scrapyards instead to ensure they were scrapped.
If a TDO applied to this specific pair, I could maybe understand from a commercial aspect, if the scrappie is paying for 2x PCs then thats what they expect. If they are already internally stripped, then they are not getting a whole pair and rightly would expect to pay less. If the Rosco didnt have a handle on whats included and whats missing, then a reduced rate could be agreed, but to ensure the scrappie doesnt uncover & start selling a hidden pot of gold inside them, put a TDO on it to limit the risk of an accounting commercial gain/loss on that specific transaction… that would make sense to me, but a wholesale TDO on anything made before 1994 doesnt stack up, and if it does, its clearly selectively enforced, given how much stuff has been preserved, in whole or in part ever since.
Does the new would be purchaser inherit a TDO requirement as part of a sale contract ? - is preservation now full of objects with a delayed death sentence ?
These two power cars are suggested to be stripped internally already before Sims, then whatever clause around a BR era TDO is surely breached already, as they arent going “Total” for destruction ? - why does a cab as a part differ from a power unit as a part ?
ive a piece of a class 315 and 142 in my garage, does this mean a Rosco is liable still for them, and if I dont want them any more am I obliged to TDO them..nothing was listed in the details on ebay… So I really dont think so.
is this really just an excuse by the Rosco to brush off outside industry parts enquiries, from the public by offering the alternative of just offloading a full vehicle and letting that buying party deal with the bits they want ?
Similarly for the scrapper, just processing it and getting shut is easier than letting it sit around for third parties to come and strip over a longer period. (the value of bits to enthusiasts isnt understood and so the additional commercial value is being missed).
I remeber in the 1980’s buses being wholesale scrapped, but the scrappies suddenly started a huge spare parts business, and as the buses were originally government funded, transferred for scrap at low value and suddenly gave a pot of gold to the scrappies there was a big media fuss. The result was delibrate destructive damage being inflicted at the depot, and the buses being towed to the scrapyards instead to ensure they were scrapped.
If a TDO applied to this specific pair, I could maybe understand from a commercial aspect, if the scrappie is paying for 2x PCs then thats what they expect. If they are already internally stripped, then they are not getting a whole pair and rightly would expect to pay less. If the Rosco didnt have a handle on whats included and whats missing, then a reduced rate could be agreed, but to ensure the scrappie doesnt uncover & start selling a hidden pot of gold inside them, put a TDO on it to limit the risk of an accounting commercial gain/loss on that specific transaction… that would make sense to me, but a wholesale TDO on anything made before 1994 doesnt stack up, and if it does, its clearly selectively enforced, given how much stuff has been preserved, in whole or in part ever since.
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ChilternTurbo
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As you say, I think it's just easier for a company like Sims who process a huge amount of scrap metal besides redundant railway stock just to deal with what turns up pretty much immediately. I can imagine the probability of being mucked about by the general public not to mention the staffing costs of removing specific bits and pieces is high. I think the TDO is quite a useful 'get out clause' when companies like Sims get enquiries about salvaging bits and pieces.
It's an interesting question. The scrap value of these power cars will be in the metal and wiring and if things like engines are removed then the scrap value will be effected. Non-recyclables, and I imagine there are a lot, like fibreglass and certain plastics will be sifted out together with fluids and are quite costly to dispose of in a compliant way.
3973EXL
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STP 09/11 All Caped
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0459 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Long Marston
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1135 Long Marston to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1636 Newport Docks (Simsgroup) to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail
( maybe incorrect thread, not aware what is being conveyed x LM )
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0459 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Long Marston
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1135 Long Marston to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1636 Newport Docks (Simsgroup) to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail
( maybe incorrect thread, not aware what is being conveyed x LM )
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D365
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Are the moves from/to RTC not light engine movements?
not sure what other Long Marston stock could be being scrapped at the moment.
TrainTrackJack
Member
Power Cars, Wagons, a few MK3s. We shall see tommorow.
This sounds like a good basis for starting some new ‘National Reserve’ rumours!
DBS92042
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At the moment it doesn't look like it'll run today, unless a loco is already at Long Marston that I'm unaware of.
warwickshire
On Moderation
It didn't happen.
DanNCL
Established Member
I think Sims are having issues processing stuff, as they’ve also had a move of 365s to them cancelled this week. They also only got one 315 rather than the expected pair yesterday.
warwickshire
On Moderation
And the power car move today Tuesday 09th November 2021 was cancelled too.
However I do believe from crewe 365 wise the remaining 7 units from tommorow after the next two have left for booths rotherham are still destined there.