Class 387

[Class313:)]

lol
And the whole point of this was to increase capacity

 

[KT530]

I agree that the announcements are endlessly clear to the point of annoying!

I suppose the commuters used to 2 car 165s have yet to learn that trains longer than 6 coaches are possible! 8 is a shock, but 12 must be so unbelievable to them that they don't believe it!

The time taken at Maidenhead is simply the sheer volume of passengers walking through to coach 8 to alight. That many people from 4 coaches can't all stand in coach 8 ready to get off. Simply not enough time in the timetable when 12. Same at Reading, not enough time to detach the rear 4.

Said train (1D93) was short-formed as an 8 the next day (Friday) and worked a lot better, leaving Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading on time, then followed a slightly late running freight train Reading - Didcot.

Current operational restrictions means when 8-car it was also able to do the extra 10 mph between Stockley Jct and Maidenhead compared to when formed of 12, which probably gave it an extra minute or so.

 

[gwr4090]

As the GW Class 387 units don't have GW-ATP, are they permitted to exceed 100mph on the main lines ? Are they fitted with ETCS yet ready for when this is eventually installed in place of the current GW-ATP (including to Heathrow) ?

 

[spark001uk]

Well I don't know what the limits are now but I rode on the 1942 fast to Maidenhead not long after they started last year and I can definitely say my GPS speedo clocked 110 on more than one occasion.

 

[wls1]

They can do 110 but not if their 12 cars as far as i know.

 

[JN114]

110mph max except-

100mph max East of Stockley Bridge Jn
100mph max when operating in 12 car formation

Rules regarding GW-ATP were relaxed to 110mph a few years ago in anticipation of 387 introduction.

Not currently ETCS fitted.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Are there any plans to allow 387s to run at 110mph with 12 cars?

 

[Class313:)]

Why arent they allowed in the first place?

 

[wls1]

Something to do with the spacing between pantographs or something or the amount of them I believe. IETs have 2 pantos and can do more than 100, same with 8 car 387s.

 

[Class313:)]

why would 3 pantos cause a problem?

 

[JN114]

why would 3 pantos cause a problem?

It’s to do with the amount of force put on the contact wire.

A 10 car IET has 2 pans in the space a 12 car 387 has 3, while I think high speed 3-pan operation was in the GW electrification specification; the older equipment east of Stockley isn’t up to it - and they’re giving the newer stuff a little time to bed in.

 

[Class313:)]

I see. So potentially 3 panto 110mph operation west of Stockley?

 

[jyte]

I see. So potentially 3 panto 110mph operation west of Stockley?

Eventually yes, that's my understanding.

 

[jopsuk]

why would 3 pantos cause a problem?

as the pantograph goes along the wire, it causes a vertical wave behind it. The faster the train (as I understand it) the bigger the wave. So a second pantograph will find it harder to stay in contact due to bouncing, so it needs a higher contact force. But obviously they all have the same contact force, so although you may have solved the issue with the second one, the wave is bigger already from the first one, and now the wire, on older OHLE, is really bouncing, but of course because the wire has a stagger and tracks aren't straight, there's also going to be lateral movement there too. So that third pantograph could be in trouble.

As far as I understand it, the basic remedy is higher tension in the contact wire. Which requires heavier duty equipment.

In Japan some Shinkansen services formed of 2 sets can have 3 or more pantographs up at 170mph I think

 

[D365]

As far as I understand it, the basic remedy is higher tension in the contact wire. Which requires heavier duty equipment.

Which is, I believe, what has lead to complaints in some corners about unsightly "over-engineered" OLE equipment.

 

[APUK002]

Is this be same reason for why GN 387’s aren’t allowed to do 110 ,yet 700’s are?

 

[D365]

Class 700 top speed is 100mph...

 

[spark001uk]

Oils this be same reason for why GN 387’s aren’t allowed to do 110 ,yet 700’s are?

No I don't think it's anything to do with oil. Also 700s are 100 max anyway.

 

[APUK002]

Oh,didn’t know that

 

[Failed Unit]

Do great western allow you to use the corridor connections?

GTR great northern don’t - reason from then below.

“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

I personally don’t believe what they are saying. If Great Western and GTR southern do I will be very interested to understand why it only impacts these trains when the run on the EcML. ( no issues on Thameslink.

 

[spark001uk]

Do great western allow you to use the corridor connections?

GTR great northern don’t - reason from then below.

“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

I personally don’t believe what they are saying. If Great Western and GTR southern do I will be very interested to understand why it only impacts these trains when the run on the EcML. ( no issues on Thameslink.

They do yes, one example I can think of is the 12 car workings that stop at places like maidenhead where only the front 8 open, and there's always a stream of pax walking through from the back 4.

 

[Kite159]

I think there is an inbound 12coach working a stopping service from Reading in the evening (goes out as semi-fast) where the rear unit is locked out of use until Paddington.

(16:48 Reading - Paddington)

 

[Failed Unit]

They do yes, one example I can think of is the 12 car workings that stop at places like maidenhead where only the front 8 open, and there's always a stream of pax walking through from the back 4.

I suspect GTR great northern are not being entirely honest, and inconveniencing passengers as a result. Especially at SDO stations and before the train splits so passengers that used to walk through the train now need to get off and walk on the platform.

 

[APUK002]

Do great western allow you to use the corridor connections?

GTR great northern don’t - reason from then below.

“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

I personally don’t believe what they are saying. If Great Western and GTR southern do I will be very interested to understand why it only impacts these trains when the run on the EcML. ( no issues on Thameslink.

Exactly what I think,perhaps they could help out(southern e.g)?

 

[APUK002]

Do the 387’s have stop markers,like the 700’s do?

 

[Failed Unit]

Do the 387’s have stop markers,like the 700’s do?

At the stations I use they only have the standard “4, 8, 12 and S Car stops” doesn’t mean they don’t have them elsewhere but at the places I use they are not treated differently.

 

[APUK002]

At the stations I use they only have the standard “4, 8, 12 and S Car stops” doesn’t mean they don’t have them elsewhere but at the places I use they are not treated differently.

Ok then

 

[Saj8]

Do the 387’s have stop markers,like the 700’s do?

Yes, they do.

All platforms where 387s operate have new PSMs (Platform Stop Markers.) Some are co located with the old turbo markers, (particulartly the S boards where the passenger entrance to the platform is at the far end) but most are at new locations on the platform.

They are similar to the IET boards, and consist of a square plate with a black and yellow hash border. They have solid blue circle with a 4, 8, 12 or S inside. On platforms where SDO is in operation there is a rectangular plate underneath the main square board which states, "EMU SDO x".

So for example at a 7 car platform there will be a 4 car board just over half way along, and then an 8 car board with an EMU SDO 7 plate underneath it at the far end.

New poster, but long time lurker. Hello all!

 

[APUK002]

Yes, they do.

All platforms where 387s operate have new PSMs (Platform Stop Markers.) Some are co located with the old turbo markers, (particulartly the S boards where the passenger entrance to the platform is at the far end) but most are at new locations on the platform.

They are similar to the IET boards, and consist of a square plate with a black and yellow hash border. They have solid blue circle with a 4, 8, 12 or S inside. On platforms where SDO is in operation there is a rectangular plate underneath the main square board which states, "EMU SDO x".

So for example at a 7 car platform there will be a 4 car board just over half way along, and then an 8 car board with an EMU SDO 7 plate underneath it at the far end.

New poster, but long time lurker. Hello all!

Do you have photos of them?

 

[Saj8]

Do you have photos of them?

I'm afraid not. I just have a graphic of one as it appeared in one of the operational documents.