Class 387

[TheKnightWho]

How many does that make it at GWR then?

 

[swt_passenger]

Six.

130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 136. From previous posts.

 

[JN114]

It was done by a Freightliner 66 and a barrier waggon between the 66 and the unit(s). I know this as when this is planned from Bletchley, the return is North Pole IEP Depot to Crewe Basford Hall S.S.N. instead of back up to Bletchley T.M.D. which is what the ROG loco's do. Although I'm still pretty sure a single barrier waggon cannot amount to the length of a 4 car 387, so I'm going to say two were delivered on Sunday night.

You can say what you like, it doesn't make you correct. Nippy, who is in a far better position to comment than you are, has confirmed 136 arrived Sunday, 134 arrived Monday. We know 137 is at Bletchley for fault-free running so there must be a 2nd unit with it to provide insurance. Going by Nippy's numbers that must be 135. Just accept that you were mistaken and move on.

 

[leomartin125]

So what do you think was delivered Monday night then?

I can only guess the other was 387137 as 387136 was delivered on Sunday for sure. Going into Paddington this morning, 387130 and 387131 were on the Hayes Shuttle, and there was only one 8 car 387 set in the North Pole Carriage Sidings along with 800001 and 800002 coupled together. No other 387's were in sight so I guess the new arrivals are inside North Pole getting their branding applied. All of this is based on observation so I have no need to think I made a mistake...what I saw is what I saw. Nippy isn't going off what he saw, he is going on what has been recorded so far.

Anyway this isn't worth arguing about so lets just see what turns up when the branding is applied.

 

[Nippy]

I was going off Trust as I was the signalman who put the set on Sunday in NP, and the wagons off the Monday/Tuesday night move. There were six barrier wagons as well. I won't bother reporting any more moves. Work it out when you see them.

 

[FGW_DID]

I can only guess the other was 387137 as 387136 was delivered on Sunday for sure. Going into Paddington this morning, 387130 and 387131 were on the Hayes Shuttle, and there was only one 8 car 387 set in the North Pole Carriage Sidings along with 800001 and 800002 coupled together. No other 387's were in sight so I guess the new arrivals are inside North Pole getting their branding applied. All of this is based on observation so I have no need to think I made a mistake...what I saw is what I saw. Nippy isn't going off what he saw, he is going on what has been recorded so far.

Anyway this isn't worth arguing about so lets just see what turns up when the branding is applied.

What's branding applied got to do with it, it's not going to change the numbers!

387130/131/132/133 are in traffic.

387134/136 are at N Pole and yet to enter service.

 

[leomartin125]

What's branding applied got to do with it, it's not going to change the numbers!

387130/131/132/133 are in traffic.

387134/136 are at N Pole and yet to enter service.

Just seen a picture of a 66 hauling six barrier waggons, which are also green, and a 4 car GWR 387 in the middle. If 387137 is at Bletchley still, then I must have confused the barrier waggons for another set, it was pitch black after all.

 

[jopsuk]

as a digression- is part of the reason that the class was designated as it is, rather than 377/8, that the CLass 375s, which are even closer to 377 spec, have subclasses /3, /7 and /8 (with Class 377/3 being originally Class 375/3)?

 

[Domh245]

as a digression- is part of the reason that the class was designated as it is, rather than 377/8, that the CLass 375s, which are even closer to 377 spec, have subclasses /3, /7 and /8 (with Class 377/3 being originally Class 375/3)?

I think it is more to do with the 110mph capability of the 387s.

 

[Class377/5]

as a digression- is part of the reason that the class was designated as it is, rather than 377/8, that the CLass 375s, which are even closer to 377 spec, have subclasses /3, /7 and /8 (with Class 377/3 being originally Class 375/3)?

Because technology wise they are very different trains. Unlike the 377/7, they are not backwards compatible with earlier Electrostars and can only couple for ECS or emergency events. This is because beyond the brakes and door controls, nothing else on a 387 will talk to the older Electrostar design.

 

[317 forever]

I rode 387 118 from Peckham Rye to Blackfriars on Friday September 2nd. I guess their use on routes like these is to keep them warm between their use on Bedford - Brighton services (now that 700s are coming into service gradually) and transfer to Great Northern.

I am hoping that newer 387s will be on Daily services to Maidenhead or even Reading next summer.

 

[Class377/5]

I rode 387 118 from Peckham Rye to Blackfriars on Friday September 2nd. I guess their use on routes like these is to keep them warm between their use on Bedford - Brighton services (now that 700s are coming into service gradually) and transfer to Great Northern.

I am hoping that newer 387s will be on Daily services to Maidenhead or even Reading next summer.

Standard Thameslink diagram. Quite a few of he Bedford to Brighton diagrams visit all the other places during the day. There isn't the slack to allow every diagram to be kept to one service group at present.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am hoping that newer 387s will be on Daily services to Maidenhead or even Reading next summer.

Jan 17 all day service to Hayes and Harlington. May 17 for all day service to Maidenhead. Details are in the GWR document linked in post #3744 a couple of weeks ago.

 

[paul1609]

Because technology wise they are very different trains. Unlike the 377/7, they are not backwards compatible with earlier Electrostars and can only couple for ECS or emergency events. This is because beyond the brakes and door controls, nothing else on a 387 will talk to the older Electrostar design.

Unless things have changed I don't think 375s will talk to 377s either.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Unless things have changed I don't think 375s will talk to 377s either.

They're incredibly similar units - I'd be very surprised if they couldn't. I don't know if a software modification would be necessary, but the only differences I can think of are the DOO side cameras that the 375s lack, and the interior CCTV monitors in the guard cabinets that the 377s seem to lack.

 

[MrB]

Unless things have changed I don't think 375s will talk to 377s either.

If they don't then Southeastern may modify them or have a subfleet when there is a cascade next year. However you'd think they'd want the 377s to work with the 375s.

 

[Class377/5]

Unless things have changed I don't think 375s will talk to 377s either.

Actually they should be. The reason why the 377 and 387 cannot talk is physical changes that Bombardier made to hardware that communicates between units.

Don't forget the 377/1 first batch were delivered 375s. The SN 377 are as different from the 375s are the SN 377 are from TL 377s. It's all software and can be made compatible (note a Southern and Thameslink are not comparable due to difference software for anything other than ECS moves for failures).

 

[tsr]

...and the interior CCTV monitors in the guard cabinets that the 377s seem to lack.

Present in Panel "C" of each coach on the 377/1, 2, 3 & 4 series units. Not present on the /6 or 7 series units, or the 387s. Accessible from non-driving cabs on all 377s and 387s.

I can't remember why it's not present in the saloons on the newer units, but it may be something to do with preventing passengers seeing what sort of views - and indeed what images at that particular moment - are recorded on CCTV. Hence why it's still available in the cabs, only for those with authority to be in there.

 

[317 forever]

Jan 17 all day service to Hayes and Harlington. May 17 for all day service to Maidenhead. Details are in the GWR document linked in post #3744 a couple of weeks ago.

I shall look at their website. Thank you for being so clear here and on the GW Electrification thread.

 

[Mikey C]

I shall look at their website. Thank you for being so clear here and on the GW Electrification thread.

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/greenford-line-alterations

Maidenhead in May 2017 is a real step change, looking forward to that!

 

[Sunset route]

Actually they should be. The reason why the 377 and 387 cannot talk is physical changes that Bombardier made to hardware that communicates between units.

Don't forget the 377/1 first batch were delivered 375s. The SN 377 are as different from the 375s are the SN 377 are from TL 377s. It's all software and can be made compatible (note a Southern and Thameslink are not comparable due to difference software for anything other than ECS moves for failures).

I'm pretty sure that was the 377/3 that were ordered in a common fleet along with the 3 cars for the Hastings to Tonbridge line so they could fit 11car 375s inbetween Tunbridge Wells tunnels.

South Easstern 375 301 to 375 010
GTR Southern 375 011 to 375 338 now 377 301 to 377 328

But your point still stands

 

[Techniquest]

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/greenford-line-alterations

Maidenhead in May 2017 is a real step change, looking forward to that!

You're not the only one! May is only 9 months away, the end of an era is fast approaching!

 

[adc82140]

How are the Maidenhead services going to work? Are they in place of the Reading stoppers- which would leave Twyford with only 2tph off peak- or in addition- giving Maidenhead 6tph? Will the calling patterns of the existing Oxford stoppers change? Will they be all shacks or skip-stop?

 

[swt_passenger]

How are the Maidenhead services going to work? Are they in place of the Reading stoppers- which would leave Twyford with only 2tph off peak- or in addition- giving Maidenhead 6tph? Will the calling patterns of the existing Oxford stoppers change? Will they be all shacks or skip-stop?

They are presently running in the Paddington to West Ealing paths of the Greenford shuttles, so when they run they form an additional service as far as Hayes and Harlington.

Everything I've seen so far suggests that when extended to Maidenhead all day they will still be additional services running in paths that will eventually be taken over by Crossrail. I don't believe any other existing GWR services (i.e. apart from the Greenfords) will be pulled until Crossrail's full service starts, with 4 tph to Maidenhead 2 of which extend to Reading. I think that's currently Dec 2019, but dates seem to vary every time you look them up...

 

[reddragon]

There is a good chance that Maidenhead peak services & maybe direct services from Bourne End will go in favour of 387's from Maidenhead next May.

Also, various reports I have read state that GWR services (eg Diesel from Reading) will only stop at Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes, Ealing Broadway & Paddington from next May, releasing 165s to the West ready for Crossrail.

 

[leomartin125]

There is a good chance that Maidenhead peak services & maybe direct services from Bourne End will go in favour of 387's from Maidenhead next May.

Also, various reports I have read state that GWR services (eg Diesel from Reading) will only stop at Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes, Ealing Broadway & Paddington from next May, releasing 165s to the West ready for Crossrail.

I have no doubt the terminating services at Reading will be gone completely from the GWR timetable once Crossrail is up and running? Don't see them cutting back on the station stops this early though, next May seems rather quick for them to completely stop using Southall on Reading trains...

 

[RobShipway]

I have no doubt the terminating services at Reading will be gone completely from the GWR timetable once Crossrail is up and running? Don't see them cutting back on the station stops this early though, next May seems rather quick for them to completely stop using Southall on Reading trains...

From what I have read and as has been stated previously in this thread and other threads, the Crossrail services when they start running to Maidenhead & reading will be additional services to the stopping services already provided by GWR, so you will still having GWR stopping trains to Southall using class 387 instead of 165/166 diesel trains as well as having Crossrail.

The class 387 fleet will also as far as I am aware be doing some of the fast services to Oxfords once wiring is complete that the class 165/166 trains currently do as well as the stopping services. In the interim though, the fast services once taken over by the class 387 will be going as far as Didcot Parkway with a class 165/166 diesel shuttle to Oxford.

 

[absolutelymilk]

When are the c2c 387s expected to be in service?

 

[swt_passenger]

There is a good chance that Maidenhead peak services & maybe direct services from Bourne End will go in favour of 387's from Maidenhead next May.

Through trains from the Thames Valley branches were definitely due to cease in May 2017, it was explicitly stated in the GW direct award stakeholder brief.

One puzzling statement is that the stakeholder brief also says that on commencement of Crossrail to Heathrow in May 2018, (i.e. the 4 tph replacing Connect) then the Paddington to Hayes service will cease. But it won't be a Paddington to Hayes service by then, it will be at very least a Paddington to Maidenhead, probably Reading or further. I guess what it might mean is that it will no longer call at most stations between Hayes and Paddington, and will be modified into more of a semi fast service at that time.

 

[reddragon]

From May 2017, I think only the 387s will stop at all stations in a pre-Crossrail type service.

As for DMUs, the Reading - Twyford - Maidenhead - Slough - Hayes - EB - Paddington pattern looks more likely, but I am sure that there will be transitional arrangements.

Nobody will want the slow Turbos on stoppers holding up the faster 387s, which could probably do Maidenhead to Paddington all stations in the time it takes a turbo to do semi fast!