Class 387

[Class377/5]

The DOO issues are a bit of a red herring as Southern conductors are all permitted to work 387s on the BML anyway (with a couple of marginal partial route knowledge exceptions) and then you'd also have someone on board to provide customer assistance due to diversions too. (Really quite important, as I can tell you from personal experience of working on the last weekend that Selhurst-Balham was closed.)

The Southern guys are but not for Thameslink usage which is what they are for so my point stands. And there no need for additional staff aboard either on the 1Bxx as they are all Thameslink's at the weekend.

 

[tsr]

The Southern guys are but not for Thameslink usage which is what they are for so my point stands. And there no need for additional staff aboard either on the 1Bxx as they are all Thameslink's at the weekend.

I think we've both missed each other's points a little. Mine is that there would be no problem with the 387s running to Brighton as Southern 12 coach services if that had been needed anyway, as DOO wouldn't have been an issue because conductors generally sign most or all of the route and the traction (resourcing issues aside, though I don't think they'd have been too bad this weekend, from what I gather). So whether or not it was a Southern or TL service doesn't really cause an issue. If there had been conductors they could have worked them as timetabled extra Southern 1As or 2As (as applicable) given the swathe of amendments. And, as I say, it probably would have helped deal with passenger issues too. I know London Bridge has been just a little bit hectic at times...

 

[MCR247]

A very shiny 387 137 is currently sat at Derby station, attached to 66599 (not directly of course!). En route to Bletchley?

 

[RobShipway]

A very shiny 387 137 is currently sat at Derby station, attached to 66599 (not directly of course!). En route to Bletchley?

More likely I would have thought on to North Pole depot surely?

 

[swt_passenger]

More likely I would have thought on to North Pole depot surely?

No, they still do their mileage accumulation on the WCML and Southern based at Bletchley, under Bombardier's control until delivered to the end user after a couple of weeks.

It's been a point of discussion in this thread for the last few months, and presumably ought to be tested as a pair with 135?

 

[RobShipway]

No, they still do their mileage accumulation on the WCML and Southern based at Bletchley, under Bombardier's control until delivered to the end user after a couple of weeks.

It's been a point of discussion in this thread for the last few months, and presumably ought to be tested as a pair with 135?

Ah, okay. Surely though there is parts of the GWML where mileage accumulation can be done now such as say Southall to London Paddington or between Didcot and Reading as has been done with the pantograph's on the class 800's? Unless longer distance testing is required of course.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah, okay. Surely though there is parts of the GWML where mileage accumulation can be done now such as say Southall to London Paddington or between Didcot and Reading as has been done with the pantograph's on the class 800's? Unless longer distance testing is required of course.

The GWML electrified sections are still very short in comparison to the WCML. To do 1000 miles on the WCML is only a couple of return trips Bletchley to Crewe via Wembley, with no apparent problem finding off peak paths. On the GW, the reliefs west of Reading would be relatively too short, and are only just being energised anyway. The 10 mile or so section of wires near Paddington is clearly far too short for any form of mileage testing.

I can see far more advantages for Bombardier in carrying on with the Bletchley routine as further batches are tested in due course, and no obvious disadvantages...

 

[childwallblues]

The GWML electrified sections are still very short in comparison to the WCML. To do 1000 miles on the WCML is only a couple of return trips Bletchley to Crewe via Wembley, with no apparent problem finding off peak paths. On the GW, the reliefs west of Reading would be relatively too short, and are only just being energised anyway. The 10 mile or so section of wires near Paddington is clearly far too short for any form of mileage testing.

I can see far more advantages for Bombardier in carrying on with the Bletchley routine as further batches are tested in due course, and no obvious disadvantages...

I assume that Bombardier have leased Bletchley Depot for testing all of their new units off the production line not just GWR 387.

 

[swt_passenger]

I assume that Bombardier have leased Bletchley Depot for testing all of their new units off the production line not just GWR 387.

It definitely seems like that - I guess we'll see what happens when the c2c batch arrives, and after the next 37? GW units.

I did suggest in another thread that it might be cost effective to keep it going for other stock such as 345s, but other people thought not. Then there's the Anglia units as well to follow. We'll see in due course I suppose.

 

[RobShipway]

It definitely seems like that - I guess we'll see what happens when the c2c batch arrives, and after the next 37? GW units.

I did suggest in another thread that it might be cost effective to keep it going for other stock such as 345s, but other people thought not. Then there's the Anglia units as well to follow. We'll see in due course I suppose.

Personally if the trains are not going to be tested on the lines that they are going to be used, then testing should be equally done if they are Electric Units by Bletchley, Selhurst, Wembley and Wimbledon depot's.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd only suggest Bletchley might reasonably be used for mileage accumulation of Bombardier products on AC as it is easier.

I'm assuming Siemens wouldn't use Bletchley, and in any case SWT's 707s will not need AC testing after the first couple, so they'll probably just get their mileage accumulation runs within the SWT area somewhere, such as down to Weymouth, or back and forth to Reading like the 458/5s.

Don't forget Selhurst is extremely busy with normal day to day activities, it isn't necessarily a good idea to superimpose introduction of new units at the same time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Personally if the trains are not going to be tested on the lines that they are going to be used, then testing should be equally done if they are Electric Units by Bletchley, Selhurst, Wembley and Wimbledon depot's.

My assumption is Bletchley depot is best placed out of those four for testing for the following three reasons :-
1) The others are London depots with quite possibly less off peak line capacity around them.
2) Bletchley is also a complete depot with little other work in the way aiui.
3) The WCML also does give a decent distance to clock up enough fault free miles on.

Not Selhurst because any thing to avoid using the scarce resource of drivers that Southern/Govia seem to have would be good.
Not sure Wembley is much of a depot from a traction point of view ?.
Wimbledon depot is stuffed full iirc.
Also the depots South of the river will already be concentrating on the DC only testing and real life experience when they let passengers on them !.

 

[Brian Aylott]

My assumption is Bletchley depot is best placed out of those four for testing for the following three reasons :-
1) The others are London depots with quite possibly less off peak line capacity around them.
2) Bletchley is also a complete depot with little other work in the way aiui.
3) The WCML also does give a decent distance to clock up enough fault free miles on.

Bombardier have leased part of Bletchley Depot and like the Freightliner drivers used, now have much experience with the 387s
What would be the advantage of moving the Bombardier men (and equipment) as well as the Freightliner drivers to do the mileage accumulation on various less suitable lines just because the 387s were going to be based on them in the future?

They're getting the required AC mileages up quicker by using the WCML than they would using other lines, so that the units are getting accepted earlier
Bletchley is also suitable for easy access to the Brighton line for DC running
Brian

 

[Class 170101]

Bletchley is no longer used by a franchised operator and effectively closed.

The other reason for using it is that it has access to both AC and DC routes for the 387 testing (each access to DC via the West London Line) plus availability to test the units at 110mph and almost certainly for the overspeed test (10% isn't it?).

Mileage testing on the WCML and the BML makes the 1000 miles easy to rack up.

I would expect to see the Siemens units tested on these routes unless they can rack up the mileage in Wildenrath (Test Track)?

 

[westcoaster]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the 700's go to three bridges for initial running, as that is where the testing and commissioning drivers for 700's are based.

 

[RobShipway]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the 700's go to three bridges for initial running, as that is where the testing and commissioning drivers for 700's are based.

True, as Three Bridges depot does have the experience with the class 700's so it would make sense for the class 707's to be based there before being passed to SWT.

 

[Class377/5]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the 700's go to three bridges for initial running, as that is where the testing and commissioning drivers for 700's are based.

Assuming you mean the 707, they won't be coming to Three Bridges. Wimbledon is thier home depot as Siemens are maintaining them so zero benefit in them going there. Also work noting the 707s are not the same as the 700s with different PIS database (meaning they won't work on TL routes) along with some differences in the hardware meaning Three Bridges is not equipped to deal with the fleet.

The 700 are as close to the 707 as the 377 are to the 387s. Just because they look the same doesn't mean they are.

 

[racyrich]

It definitely seems like that - I guess we'll see what happens when the c2c batch arrives, and after the next 37? GW units.

I did suggest in another thread that it might be cost effective to keep it going for other stock such as 345s, but other people thought not. Then there's the Anglia units as well to follow. We'll see in due course I suppose.

c2c's website says the following:

After coming off the production line in Derby, the new carriages will be moved to Bletchley where they will undergo fault-free running for a 1500 miles. Once they have passed our stringent safety and reliability tests they will be moved to our East Ham depot, where they will be maintained.

http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/travel-...updates/new-carriages-update-with-dan-barrett

 

[swt_passenger]

c2c's website says the following:

After coming off the production line in Derby, the new carriages will be moved to Bletchley where they will undergo fault-free running for a 1500 miles. Once they have passed our stringent safety and reliability tests they will be moved to our East Ham depot, where they will be maintained.

http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/travel-...updates/new-carriages-update-with-dan-barrett

Thanks for bringing that into the discussion, it's quite interesting to see a TOC give the actual figure for intended fault free running as well, because over the years people have stated various numbers up to about 5000...

 

[Class377/5]

All 387s have had 1500 miles as the figure to achieve.

 

[387star]

Thanks for bringing that into the discussion, it's quite interesting to see a TOC give the actual figure for intended fault free running as well, because over the years people have stated various numbers up to about 5000...

Will they be tested on the brighton main line?

What livery. And interior do they have?

 

[swt_passenger]

All 387s have had 1500 miles as the figure to achieve.

I'm thinking back over many years, not just 387s. Posters had said anything from about 1000 to 5000 - I suspect there were a number of random guesses..

 

[Class377/5]

Will they be tested on the brighton main line?

What livery. And interior do they have?

Try looking at photos of the 345 launch that clearly showed off the external 387/3.

I'm thinking back over many years, not just 387s. Posters had said anything from about 1000 to 5000 - I suspect there were a number of random guesses..

Indeed.

 

[Class 466]

Will they be tested on the brighton main line?

What livery. And interior do they have?

Most Probably, given thats where the rest have been tested.

They're in the same livery as the 357s pretty much and have the same interior as TL/GN 387/1s.

 

[swt_passenger]

They're in the same livery as the 357s pretty much and have the same interior as TL/GN 387/1s.

Perhaps they'll go to GN when their temporary period with c2c is over? Fleet standardisation being the big thing nowadays...

 

[physics34]

Perhaps they'll go to GN when their temporary period with c2c is over? Fleet standardisation being the big thing nowadays...

thats the plan

 

[swt_passenger]

thats the plan

Would that be for strengthening, or might it see a further change to 365 numbers?

(Have to keep the cascades pot simmering...)

 

[Class377/5]

There is no plan for the c2c units to go to the GN.

 

[RobShipway]

There is no plan for the c2c units to go to the GN.

I suspect that they may possibly join the class 387 units either with Southern or with GWR or just be used for spot hire as was originally intended for the class 360/2 trains.

 

[physics34]

There is no plan for the c2c units to go to the GN.

My mistake, it must be GWR they are off to then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect that they may possibly join the class 387 units either with Southern or with GWR or just be used for spot hire as was originally intended for the class 360/2 trains.

yeh i think its GWR.... southern dont have any