Class 387

[postye]

Unless you know different, the dispute is about operation of trains of more than 10 cars as DOO. Introduction of 387s means the introduction of 4 car units to replace the 5 car 442s, so trains of 4, 8 or 12 cars will replace trains of 5 or 10 cars on Gatwick Express. Where traffic levels require that the 10 car 442s cannot be replaced by 8 car 387s, they will have to be 12 cars, so the issues around DOO have definitely not been sorted and have a lot to do with Gatwick Express.

That is not what the strike this week was over.
There are 2 different disputes and the 387/2 are running in 12 car formation in DOO

 

[D1009]

That is not what the strike this week was over.
There are 2 different disputes and the 387/2 are running in 12 car formation in DOO

Not on Gatwick Express. Thameslink were already running 12 car DOO trains.

 

[postye]

Not on Gatwick Express. Thameslink were already running 12 car DOO trains.

Erm - yes they are, gatwick express have been running one 12 car formation since Tuesday

 

[D1009]

Erm - yes they are, gatwick express have been running one 12 car formation since Tuesday

Thanks, that's news to me.

 

[childwallblues]

387222 is now at Bletchley.

 

[Class 170101]

Erm - yes they are, gatwick express have been running one 12 car formation since Tuesday

First gained an injunction in court as previously reported.

 

[cjmillsnun]

First gained an injunction in court as previously reported.

First? I think you mean Govia.

 

[RobShipway]

First? I think you mean Govia.

I was going to say I did not think that the class 387/1's had moved over to the GWML yet and even then they were to be running 8 coach trains only.

 

[Class 170101]

First? I think you mean Govia.

Indeed

 

[Class377/5]

Various moves happened on Friday 6th May as part of the cascade for the 387/2 introduction.

5O90 08+35 Bletchley to Stewarts Lane 387220/221/217

5Y87 09+36 Tilgate Sidings to Stewarts Lane 387204/212

5xxx xxxx Stewarts Lane to Tilgate Sidings 387220

 

[sonic2009]

How many of the 387/2 are GTR using on Thameslink services? Noticed one yesterday on Thameslink at Preston Park.

 

[postye]

How many of the 387/2 are GTR using on Thameslink services? Noticed one yesterday on Thameslink at Preston Park.

Three. 387201, 387202 & 387203

 

[Class377/5]

Two 12 car 387/2 running around as from today...

1U77 13:30 Gatwick to Victoria
1D84 14:15 Victoria to Gatwick
1D20 18:26 Victoria to Gatwick
1U25 19:30 Gatwick to Victoria
1D34 20:15 Victoria to Gatwick
1U39 21:00 Gatwick to Victoria
1D46 21:45 Victoria to Gatwick
1U51 22:35 Gatwick to Victoria
1D60 23:30 Victoria to Gatwick
1U03 00:20 Gatwick to Victoria

Second 12 car 387/2 is 387216/207/219 working the following services today...

1D12 05:15 Victoria to Gatwick
1U17 0605 Gatwick to Victoria
1D24 06:45 Victoria to Gatwick
1U29 07:34 Gatwick to Victoria
1A16 08:30 Victoria to Brighton
1A29 09:48 Brighton to Victoria
1A36 11:00 Victoria to Brighton
1A53 12:18 Brighton to Victoria
1A56 13:30 Victoria to Brighton
1A75 14:48 Brighton to Victoria
1A76 14:48 Victoria to Brighton
1A03 16:00 Brighton to Victoria
1A08 17:20 Victoria to Brighton
1A17 20:20 Brighton to Victoria
1A20 21:30 Victoria to Brighton
1A27 22:55 Brighton to Victoria

 

[Bishopstone]

Southern's live running information shows the following trains as 10 vice 12:

13:30 Gatwick to Victoria
14:15 Victoria to Gatwick

(presumably 2x442)

That plan didn't last very long, then!

 

[Class377/5]

Southern's live running information shows the following trains as 10 vice 12:

13:30 Gatwick to Victoria
14:15 Victoria to Gatwick

(presumably 2x442)

That plan didn't last very long, then!

Points failure.

 

[Fincra5]

I'm very confused as to how these are an "upgrade"... ok the train is newer and ooooooooooh fancy WiFi but for an airport train there appears to be LESS/Smaller luggage racks than a 442, worse 1st Class and less comfortable seats (not to spark up the seat argument again... )

 

[Class377/5]

I'm very confused as to how these are an "upgrade"... ok the train is newer and ooooooooooh fancy WiFi but for an airport train there appears to be LESS/Smaller luggage racks than a 442, worse 1st Class and less comfortable seats (not to spark up the seat argument again... )

Better facilities for disabled, more seats including 1st class (comfort a side subject), better on-board facilities along with units that can cope with the service far better as well as lower boarding times from double doors (and more of then with 24 double doors vs 20 single doors) meaning those with luggage can actual get in ok rather than the struggle the 442 cause. Asa for less luggage racks, the 387s have them by every door IIRC so more of them.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I'm very confused as to how these are an "upgrade"... ok the train is newer and ooooooooooh fancy WiFi but for an airport train there appears to be LESS/Smaller luggage racks than a 442, worse 1st Class and less comfortable seats (not to spark up the seat argument again... )

Should also be more reliable once any initial teething issues are sorted out.

 

[Fincra5]

Better facilities for disabled, more seats including 1st class (comfort a side subject), better on-board facilities along with units that can cope with the service far better as well as lower boarding times from double doors (and more of then with 24 double doors vs 20 single doors) meaning those with luggage can actual get in ok rather than the struggle the 442 cause. Asa for less luggage racks, the 387s have them by every door IIRC so more of them.

Agreeably the Disabled Access is better. Whats the better on-board facilities? Wifi... but less toilets overall etc...

Boarding time is fitted into the 442 timings though and these would be achieved if the service pattern on the BML wasn't flawed, not an easy fix. AFAIK most 442's have Luggage racks in each coach (near the vestibule).

 

[387star]

I am very interested to know any gen of the gwr build

For instance will they have a different first class provision?

Will they use flatcloth or standard upholstery ?

Will the seating layout be the same?

What colour interior etc

 

[swt_passenger]

I am very interested to know any gen of the gwr build

For instance will they have a different first class provision?

Will they use flatcloth or standard upholstery ?

Will the seating layout be the same?

What colour interior etc

There's another way of looking at this though, because how likely is it that GWR would want 8 units that are relatively different to the other 29?

 

[phoenixcronin]

There's another way of looking at this though, because how likely is it that GWR would want 8 units that are relatively different to the other 29?

They could of course build the 8 new build units as they desire with proper first class etc/upholstery and then retrofit the 29 from Thameslink, so that they all eventually end up the same.

 

[hwl]

They could of course build the 8 new build units as they desire with proper first class etc/upholstery and then retrofit the 29 from Thameslink, so that they all eventually end up the same.

But that would cost more...

 

[Bishopstone]

I am very interested to know any gen of the gwr build

For instance will they have a different first class provision?

The 165s on Thames Valley local duties don't have first class, so I'd be surprised if the GWR 387s have any first class section marked, initially.

When they spread to Newbury and Didcot/Swindon etc, no doubt a few seats will get first class antimacassars and some window stickers, in Thameslink/Southern style.

 

[cactustwirly]

The 165s on Thames Valley local duties don't have first class, so I'd be surprised if the GWR 387s have any first class section marked, initially.

When they spread to Newbury and Didcot/Swindon etc, no doubt a few seats will get first class antimacassars and some window stickers, in Thameslink/Southern style.

The 166s do, the 165s had it removed only a few months ago - with the increase in capacity that the 387s bring I would expect them to have first class.

 

[Class377/5]

There's another way of looking at this though, because how likely is it that GWR would want 8 units that are relatively different to the other 29?

Well you say that...

Agreeably the Disabled Access is better. Whats the better on-board facilities? Wifi... but less toilets overall etc...

Boarding time is fitted into the 442 timings though and these would be achieved if the service pattern on the BML wasn't flawed, not an easy fix. AFAIK most 442's have Luggage racks in each coach (near the vestibule).

Better facilities, plugs, WiFi, reading lamps and if your in a wheelchair proper areas so you don't feel like a piece of lugguage?

Less toilets? I'll be honest and not sure how many a 442 has so you're properly right on this point. Not that the existing toilets are great for people anyway.

Luggage racks, so 442s have luggage racks near every doors, so less than 20 per 10 car where as a 12 car has them next to every doorway so it has 24. Certainly adds up to more luggage racks to me. Plus extra space for bikes on a 12 vs 10 as ou gain the extra area.

Boarding time on the 442 are awful and affect the whole line when things do go wrong. The poor performance of the 442s also means when you get a min or two delay it ripples as the 442s need constant running to keep to time. The 387s meaning meanwhile can do better. So not only are you causing less line capacity by using the 442 but also affecting the ability to recovery from incidents.

The 165s on Thames Valley local duties don't have first class, so I'd be surprised if the GWR 387s have any first class section marked, initially.

When they spread to Newbury and Didcot/Swindon etc, no doubt a few seats will get first class antimacassars and some window stickers, in Thameslink/Southern style.

Plans for 387s to be used as far as Cardiff to Paddington long term for major events.

 

[sarahj]

I was on my first one today, which had replaced the 442 you used to work on this shift.
Train was delayed going up to London as a fire alarm in coach 11 went off. Nice long walk for the driver while the train blocked the up quarry line.

Coming down, I was a 'punter' from Gatwick to Brighton. Had a look around. first class punters not impressed, tho' one liked the wi-fi, but was unsure how long it would be free. Issues with doors at Brighton, then opened, then shut again. Alarms going off in drivers cab.

Funny thing is they told us they were the same as 377's. Punter mentioned about between coach sliding door not working. Process, used to be simple, pop the flap, flick a switch, door should work. So popped the flap, no switch. There is a bracket for one, but not one fitted. So thats one change then....Said sorry, he laughed.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So popped the flap, no switch. There is a bracket for one, but not one fitted. So thats one change then....

Unless it had fallen off...?

 

[physics34]

Later 377s also don't have this switch.

 

[tsr]

Funny thing is they told us they were the same as 377's. Punter mentioned about between coach sliding door not working. Process, used to be simple, pop the flap, flick a switch, door should work. So popped the flap, no switch. There is a bracket for one, but not one fitted. So thats one change then....Said sorry, he laughed.

Later 377s also don't have this switch.

The conductors' brief omitted several things but this should definitely have been included. The only way to lock gangway doors out of use is by using the t-key switch on the doors themselves. Of course this is rather awkward if they've completely jammed!