Class 387

[D1009]

Am I right in thinking that the unions sort of all agree on the fact that trains of over 12 cars in length should not be DOO? Was that not a sort of 'rule' or principle that they all agreed on?

Confused by that, is anyone proposing trains of over 12 cars in length?

 

[southern442]

Confused by that, is anyone proposing trains of over 12 cars in length?

Sorry, I meant 10 cars! The post has been edited.

 

[D1009]

Sorry, I meant 10 cars! The post has been edited.

Yes that is what the DOO thread in the main forum is about.

 

[southern442]

Yes that is what the DOO thread in the main forum is about.

I see. As you said, there is another forum on that, so I won't go into too much detail, but if the fact that the unions don't like DOO trains of over 10 cars length, then GTR are very naive to think that they could get away with running these 12-car trains DOO and they have been lucky that the unions didn't kick up when they started running 12-car Thameslink trains. They were dodging a bullet and they should know better.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I see. As you said, there is another forum on that, so I won't go into too much detail, but if the fact that the unions don't like DOO trains of over 10 cars length, then GTR are very naive to think that they could get away with running these 12-car trains DOO and they have been lucky that the unions didn't kick up when they started running 12-car Thameslink trains. They were dodging a bullet and they should know better.

The TL drivers are on a different agreement to Ex SN and GatEx.

 

[ScotGG]

Over on Southeastern (another Govia franchise) some Metro routes finally got 12-car trains in January 2015 after a 25 year delay. It went to the wire apparently (much like this) and I recall reading a driver refused initially. But it seemed to be sorted quickly.

But then again SE lack rolling stock so only about 3 services in the morning and 1 in the evening are 12-car. Maybe that made it much easier to get agreement with only a handful of drivers doing them diagrams, though that seems unlikely?

I know there's some SE drivers on here so any insight would be appreciated.

 

[southern442]

Over on Southeastern (another Govia franchise) some Metro routes finally got 12-car trains in January 2015 after a 25 year delay. It went to the wire apparently (much like this) and I recall reading a driver refused initially. But it seemed to be sorted quickly.

But then again SE lack rolling stock so only about 3 services in the morning and 1 in the evening are 12-car. Maybe that made it much easier to get agreement with only a handful of drivers doing them diagrams, though that seems unlikely?

I know there's some SE drivers on here so any insight would be appreciated.

I still think that Southern metro services should have gone straight to 12-car, as they will need to soon (and this might make the 377/6's seem like a bit of a waste) but I can now understand why as the switch would have caused a lot of issues.

(I feel we are on the brink of being told off for going off-topic )

 

[Hattermick]

I saw this on Flickr earlier, not sure but looks suspiciously like a 387 in GWR colours, especially the silver doors. The green looks a bit too black but it could just be the lighting.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69454...wum-ErdyC6-EPAWcP-ED8UDQ-EPAXjP-ED7xUL-DTHVER

Are these the 8 387/3's ordered by GWR?

 

[hwl]

Are these the 8 387/3's ordered by GWR?

Black and silver might be the Porterbrook's order (the silver /grey colour is the same as theirs)?

 

[swt_passenger]

Black and silver might be the Porterbrook's order (the silver /grey colour is the same as theirs)?

I'd go with it being GWR dark green as seen by the camera under artificial light.

 

[Domh245]

Black and silver might be the Porterbrook's order (the silver /grey colour is the same as theirs)?

Porterbrook appear to have a blue white theme currently (on their website at least) having moved away from their purple and white/silver scheme.

 

[Class377/5]

They are the new build 387/1 (130-137) for GWR. Porterbrook units will follow on once they are complete.

 

[Harbon 1]

I'd go with it being GWR dark green as seen by the camera under artificial light.

Definitely dark green, saw the cabs come into cab shop on the first day of the build. Remind me of mint sauce.

 

[southern442]

They are the new build 387/1 (130-137) for GWR. Porterbrook units will follow on once they are complete.

I thought they were going to be 387/3's?

 

[Harbon 1]

I thought they were going to be 387/3's?

The official build is 387/1a

 

[Domh245]

I thought they were going to be 387/3's?

IIRC:

387/1 were the Thameslink build which will be moving to GWR (along with the option units currently under construction)

387/2 are the GatEx units

387/3 are the Porterbrook units.

 

[palmersears]

Forgive me for asking a question that may be A) covered elsewhere, B) off-topic slightly and C) potentially a bit dumb, but where are the Porterbrook units destined for when built? Or does nobody know at present?

 

[MrB]

Forgive me for asking a question that may be A) covered elsewhere, B) off-topic slightly and C) potentially a bit dumb, but where are the Porterbrook units destined for when built? Or does nobody know at present?

As far as I know these units are as yet unassigned, I know 387s are going to c2c but I'm not sure where these are coming from.

 

[phoenixcronin]

6 units will be leased by c2c for a period of 3 years, but the other 14 are still up for grabs

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Forgive me for asking a question that may be A) covered elsewhere, B) off-topic slightly and C) potentially a bit dumb, but where are the Porterbrook units destined for when built? Or does nobody know at present?

Roger Ford in Aprils Modern Railways also speculated that the Porterbrook 387's may be for the MML when electrification reaches from Bedford to Kettering and Corby in 2019. Not sure how many 387's would be required for half hourly Corby-St Pancras diagrams in upto 12 car formations?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

6 units will be leased by c2c for a period of 3 years, but the other 74 are still up for grabs

Are these part of the Porterbrook build or a temporary lease of the GwR sets due to delayed electrification?

 

[phoenixcronin]

From the Porterbrook build see here http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...stars-from-porterbrook-speculative-build.html

 

[43074]

Roger Ford in Aprils Modern Railways also speculated that the Porterbrook 387's may be for the MML when electrification reaches from Bedford to Kettering and Corby in 2019. Not sure how many 387's would be required for half hourly Corby-St Pancras diagrams in upto 12 car formations?

I doubt Porterbrook want 14 brand new 387s (6 have found temporary use with c2c) sitting idle for three years before the start of electric services...

You would need 6 387s for half hourly Corby services with 4-car units, so with 8 or 12-car running where necessary that could be anything between 10 and 15 units I suppose.

 

[southern442]

I doubt Porterbrook want 14 brand new 387s (6 have found temporary use with c2c) sitting idle for three years before the start of electric services...

Is there anywhere else (apart from c2c) that needs any extra units? Give them to GTR/Southern maybe, to strengthen some services, or maybe Greater Anglia?

 

[Gerard92]

Is there anywhere else (apart from c2c) that needs any extra units? Give them to GTR/Southern maybe, to strengthen some services, or maybe Greater Anglia?

Southeastern need extra units

 

[MrB]

Southeastern need extra units

Slightly OT but Southeastern will be getting some 319s.

 

[87015]

Is there anywhere else (apart from c2c) that needs any extra units? Give them to GTR/Southern maybe, to strengthen some services, or maybe Greater Anglia?

Need / could do with extra capacity? Yes.
Willing to pay the cost of these for it without someone else picking up the tab at least in part? Probably not.

 

[Mikey C]

Need / could do with extra capacity? Yes.
Willing to pay the cost of these for it without someone else picking up the tab at least in part? Probably not.

I'm sure they'll find a happy home, electoral pressure from disgruntled commuters will ensure that!

By the time the 6 unites for C2C are released in 2019, it'll be perfect timing for use on the MML services to Corby...

 

[ScotGG]

Is there anywhere else (apart from c2c) that needs any extra units? Give them to GTR/Southern maybe, to strengthen some services, or maybe Greater Anglia?

Southeastern. Badly.

Some of, if not the biggest housing and population growth in the UK. No new metro stock since 2006. Crossrail alleviates one line which is seeing mass housing development further along anyway (Charlton, Deptford, Greenwich etc). Current services restricted mostly to 10 car as running 5-car 376s or Networkers without SDO, despite millions spent the past 3 years on making the Network 90% capable of 12-car running.

319s are a nice short term fix but that frees up more networkers, which don't have SDO so unless something happens there not a great solution.

 

[hwl]

Southeastern. Badly.

Some of, if not the biggest housing and population growth in the UK. No new metro stock since 2006. Crossrail alleviates one line which is seeing mass housing development further along anyway (Charlton, Deptford, Greenwich etc). Current services restricted mostly to 10 car as running 5-car 376s or Networkers without SDO, despite millions spent the past 3 years on making the Network 90% capable of 12-car running.

319s are a nice short term fix but that frees up more networkers, which don't have SDO so unless something happens there not a great solution.

Anything more than the 319s and 377s will be for the next franchise rather than the current direct award. 8 networker units (+1 spare) released from Vic - Orpington by 319 would make a good difference on the other Metro routes.
Not all the substation work has been completed for 12 car yet.

 

[MrB]

Anything more than the 319s and 377s will be for the next franchise rather than the current direct award. 8 networker units (+1 spare) released from Vic - Orpington by 319 would make a good difference on the other Metro routes.
Not all the substation work has been completed for 12 car yet.

Indeed, they will as that's potentially 9 services which can be lengthened to 12 cars, one problem, however, is the 10 car platform at Woolwich Dockyard and the lack of SDO. However as SE are desperate I'm sure they can work round it.