Class 387

[Deepgreen]

Well the fun and games with 387's is starting.

You see there is no agreement to run 12 cars DOO with Gatwick and Southern drivers. But they have started to be diagrammed, though not getting very far, so far.


Something is hitting the fan....

Indeed - and there is now another thread on this specific topic (which I expect will grow very rapidly!). As someone at the sharp end, what have you been told about the introduction of 12 car 387s (if anything?). You may not work Gatexes (and obviously not as a driver) but I wonder if you have seen anything floating about.

 

[Class377/5]

As far as I know, the Class 700's are on their final part of testing before entering service next month, which means the Class 387's will be due for cascading next month to GWR. Driver training has been occurring for existing 166/165 drivers into and out of North Pole Depot, and a fair few drivers are already North Pole competent. The 387's will be delivered in Thameslink White and are due to start services for GWR between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington from Mid May onwards. Whether or not this target will be reached is yet unknown but North Pole Depot is now empty and ready for 387 delivery.

On another note, I have heard that Rail Operations Group have signed a contract to do with GWR 387 delivery and/or repaint movements to/from Wolverton using their fleet of 56's, 47's and 37's. These will be dragged and probably by my guess have more to do with Delivery from Three Bridges to North Pole rather than repainting just yet.

All mentioned above with be dependant on the initial cascade and the Class 700's entering service with Thameslink. As for the new ones being built, these may well be delivered first like Class377 has previously mentioned.

Cascade off for now. 387 on GWR is not happening in May now but later this year. Don't forget that they will be recieving some 387s from Bombardier in a few months.

ROG have already annpunced they are moving the 387s from GTR to GWR. So it wouldn't be a surprise if they do other moves.

Seems as though some issues have just arisen with 700s testing and the cascade has been halted for now. 378s moving over by mid May seems unlikely.

Nothing like a good rumour of new issues.

As far as I am aware, the use of Gatwick Class 387/2s was never planned. Although teething troubles with the Class 700 were inevitable.

The 387/2 use on Thameslink is not connected to the 700 introduction but Bombardier's need to take 387/1 for mods works. Been planned for awhile.

 

[MrB]

Cascade off for now. 387 on GWR is not happening in May now but later this year.

Is there a reason why? Something to do with the mods currently being done to the 387/1s perhaps?

 

[sarahj]

Indeed - and there is now another thread on this specific topic (which I expect will grow very rapidly!). As someone at the sharp end, what have you been told about the introduction of 12 car 387s (if anything?). You may not work Gatexes (and obviously not as a driver) but I wonder if you have seen anything floating about.

Very little on 12 car, except that they want to run them doo and the union has no agreement. They also want us to work them south of gatwick but since there is nothing on our license that says 387 we could be in a very sticky situation if something went wrong and someone went, 'well I see your licensed to work 313, 442 and 377, but not 387's mmmmm.

Mind they want rid of us anyway.

 

[Class377/5]

Is there a reason why? Something to do with the mods currently being done to the 387/1s perhaps?

Try reading the full post as I've already provide the answer to your question once.

UPDATE;

Current 387/2 locations

201 - In service on Thameslink
202 - In service on Thameslink
203 - In service on Thameslink
204 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
205 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
206 – Litchurch Lane
207 – In service on Gatwick Express
208 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
209 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
210 - In service on Gatwick Express
211 - Cauldwell Depot
212 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
213 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
214 - Tilgate Sidings (Three Bridges depot)
215 - In service on Gatwick Express
216 – Selhurst Depot
217 - Bletchley on test
218 - Selhurst Depot
219 - Bletchley on test
220 - Bletchley on test
221 - Litchurch Lane
222 - Litchurch Lane
223 - Litchurch Lane
224 - Litchurch Lane
225 Litchurch Lane
226 - Litchurch Lane
227 - Litchurch Lane

 

[Mikey C]

http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/travel-information/timetables-trains/new-carriages-and-may-timetable/

From the C2C thread, C2C to lease 24 new Derby built carriages from later this year, so that's 6 of the speculative 387s accounted for!

 

[Class 466]

http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/travel-information/timetables-trains/new-carriages-and-may-timetable/

From the C2C thread, C2C to lease 24 new Derby built carriages from later this year, so that's 6 of the speculative 387s accounted for!

Or, 6 of the 8 ones destined for GWR given how far behind electrification is, and it's only a 3 year deal...

 

[Mikey C]

Or, 6 of the 8 ones destined for GWR given how far behind electrification is, and it's only a 3 year deal...

Well C2C are going to order their own new trains anyway, so it was only going to be a short term deal to cope with their massive overcrowding!

 

[swt_passenger]

Or, 6 of the 8 ones destined for GWR given how far behind electrification is, and it's only a 3 year deal...

Most reports are now stating they are part of the Porterbrook speculative order, not the GW follow on batch.

But the order Bombardier build them in was always likely to be flexible, given they are basically exactly the same trains. They may just take the factory slot that was originally intended for the GW extra units.

 

[Class377/5]

Or, 6 of the 8 ones destined for GWR given how far behind electrification is, and it's only a 3 year deal...

The GWR 8 are required by GWR to provide services on the already electrified routes that they were planned to go to 387 in May prior to the 387/1 cascade delays.

 

[Bishopstone]

So, with the dispute over GatEx 12-car 387 operation, as discussed at length on the other thread, will further GatEx diagrams be going over to 387s next week - or indeed at all - pending resolution of these matters between ASLEF and GTR?

If not, what are the implications in respect of 442s due to come off lease imminently?

 

[D1009]

So, with the dispute over GatEx 12-car 387 operation, as discussed at length on the other thread, will further GatEx diagrams be going over to 387s next week - or indeed at all - pending resolution of these matters between ASLEF and GTR?

If not, what are the implications in respect of 442s due to come off lease imminently?

Having had the misfortune to have read most of that thread, I can't see anywhere that suggests it has become an official dispute. What will probably happen is that any GatEx workings that have been incorrectly diagrammed for 3x387 won't be formed of 12 cars.

 

[Class377/5]

So, with the dispute over GatEx 12-car 387 operation, as discussed at length on the other thread, will further GatEx diagrams be going over to 387s next week - or indeed at all - pending resolution of these matters between ASLEF and GTR?

If not, what are the implications in respect of 442s due to come off lease imminently?

Units aren't been taken off lease straight away. TSGN concession is supposed to keep units for a month during cascades any way.

The drivers unions however are going to have to explain at some point why they've agreed 12 car 387 in DOO between Victoria and Brighton for Thameslink (it's an authorised diversionary route) and why it's so unsafe to do so with GatEx services.

 

[Deepgreen]

Having had the misfortune to have read most of that thread, I can't see anywhere that suggests it has become an official dispute. What will probably happen is that any GatEx workings that have been incorrectly diagrammed for 3x387 won't be formed of 12 cars.

The (Brighton) Argus carried a story yesterday that drivers are to be balloted over the issue.

 

[4-COR 3142]

A question I've been meaning to ask for some time, why have the Tilgate sidings at Three Bridges - the ones by the Horsham line so as far from Tilgate as you could get - have such a tall solid fence between them and the adjacent sidings?

I'm presuming that the adjacent ones belong to an other company but I can't really see why this barrier is so BIG?

 

[westcoaster]

It might be down to planning consent, and any light/noise affect on neighbours.

 

[Bald Rick]

It might be down to planning consent, and any light/noise affect on neighbours.

99% sure that is correct; there are some very strict noise limits in place on the new depot complex as a whole.

 

[jon0844]

The drivers unions however are going to have to explain at some point why they've agreed 12 car 387 in DOO between Victoria and Brighton for Thameslink (it's an authorised diversionary route) and why it's so unsafe to do so with GatEx services.

Because they're red?

 

[Class377/5]

Because they're red?

Thameslink has run 12 car 387/2 with 201/202/203 multiple times without incident so that's out. Like different colour body/seats are a valid excuse anyway.

 

[AlexNL]

"Many commuters on TL while GatEx full of tourists carrying bulky suitcases and heavy bags so more chance of train-platform incidents"?

 

[trainmania100]

Has a 387 derailed at lovers walk and if so what's the status

 

[Class377/5]

Has a 387 derailed at lovers walk and if so what's the status

What today? Nothing derailed as I went past.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"Many commuters on TL while GatEx full of tourists carrying bulky suitcases and heavy bags so more chance of train-platform incidents"?

Thameslink serves two airports so don't think that's ever an issue.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Has a 387 derailed at lovers walk and if so what's the status

387 103, I believe, but one axle only.

 

[aleggatta]

not 103- that was in 3 road at the time of the incident...

 

[trainmania100]

not 103- that was in 3 road at the time of the incident...

You sure?
Various sources are saying 387103
I'm sure it's back on track now anyway

 

[absolutelymilk]

Thameslink has run 12 car 387/2 with 201/202/203 multiple times without incident so that's out. Like different colour body/seats are a valid excuse anyway.

I think that may have been a tongue-in-cheek comment...

 

[jon0844]

I think that may have been a tongue-in-cheek comment...

Yes it was, and just imagine if ASLEF actually used that as a reason!

 

[phoenixcronin]

I saw this on Flickr earlier, not sure but looks suspiciously like a 387 in GWR colours, especially the silver doors. The green looks a bit too black but it could just be the lighting.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69454...wum-ErdyC6-EPAWcP-ED8UDQ-EPAXjP-ED7xUL-DTHVER

 

[cjmillsnun]

I saw this on Flickr earlier, not sure but looks suspiciously like a 387 in GWR colours, especially the silver doors. The green looks a bit too black but it could just be the lighting.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/69454...wum-ErdyC6-EPAWcP-ED8UDQ-EPAXjP-ED7xUL-DTHVER

Yup, that's definitely a 387 in GWR colours.

 

[southern442]

Am I right in thinking that the unions sort of all agree on the fact that trains of over 10 cars in length should not be DOO? Was that not a sort of 'rule' or principle that they all agreed on?