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Class 387
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Don't be fooled by the class number. The 377/6s and 377/7s are not real 377s they are VERY MUCH more like 387s and 379s. So a five car version of a 387 is, in my book, technically possible in a new order or for extending the existing ones. Seems unlikely as they are often used in 12-car trains - but as for GW ?. Class377/5 will be along with any better info on the technicalities though.
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Class377/5
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The 387s are techinally different from the 379, 377/6 and /7. Dont forget that the 387s are incompatible with 377s in passenger service and can't be made compatible without re-writing the units and degrading the abilities of the unit.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Oh, that different
. So the 377/6 & 7s are neither 377s or 387s but made to work together with 377s ?.Oh, that different
Hmm I assume Bombardier would have preferred to supply essentially 387's instead of 377/6 and 7 but had to come up with something that would work with other 377's
Class377/5
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Oh, that different
377/6 ands /7 were ordered backwards compatible, 387s weren't. It don't forget 377/7 is working to mids 90 tech spec so it can work with older units.
387 is leap forward into 2014 tech.
387211 is now being delivered as 5X33 17+16 Derby Litchurch Lane to Bletchley TMD
Went inside a 387/2 this morning. Can't believe that apart from the colours and an extra small luggage rack per coach that these are exactly the same as 387/1s. Even down to the sandpaper style southern seat covers. Very unfortunate.
They are a couple of "priority"seats with grey seat covers per coach..... With this provision you wouldve thought they'd consider the overall comfort level of the units.
They are a couple of "priority"seats with grey seat covers per coach..... With this provision you wouldve thought they'd consider the overall comfort level of the units.
Well what do you expect they weren't specifically procured for the route simply taking up the 387 follow on order probably as it was the quickest and cheapest option, and depending on the contract with Bombardier, making significant changes to the original spec may well be costly.
The thin hard seats look like the new standard for new rolling so people will have to start to either like it or lump it, I expect they will get some flack over 1st class though.
I actually quite like the red and blue interior looks a lot better than dreary southern green.
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Did the British airport authority have much input into these Gatwick express 387s?
Sometimes wonder if it would make sense for Stansted and Gatwick express to come under baa control were they not pushing for that?
I like the 387s but the 442s have a proper first class so surprised by the change
Sometimes wonder if it would make sense for Stansted and Gatwick express to come under baa control were they not pushing for that?
I like the 387s but the 442s have a proper first class so surprised by the change
urpert
Member
Gatwick hasn't been owned by BAA since 2009.
Nym
Established Member
Nor has it been the British Airports Authority since around 1986...
It's a shame but I really don't think it should be a like it or lump it situation.
The ride at speed on this units with hard seats is poor.
When seats are meant to last for 25 odd years and the carriages are already very expensive I can't see a bit of extra cushioning being a massive expense. !
And I'm sure it's not that difficult to change/amend an order.
Well as far as standard class goes the 700's have similar seats without the armrests, the refurb Railbus has similar seats, the IEP's have wider headrests, and slightly thicker padding but it doesn't look that different, I'm guessing the AT200 seating wont be that different either.
For the past few years we have had firmer seats but with more padding, this looks like the next level.
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
The seats are surprisingly firm as I found in the 387/1s. But they are fairly comfortable - not sure about a longer journey than St Pancras to East Croydon though.
Sparks807Evo
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There certainly seems to be a trend recently to buy this type of seat - yet to try one so can't judge, however for short journies for around 30 minutes they'd be fine. Hopefully will get on one in a couple of weeks time and can give a real opinion on them. However wouldn't fancy the longer trips on them - the 172 seating LM have is probably a better compromise. Well padded and good back support, and actually haven't worn very much at all despite it being 4 and a bit years now. Combined with the 172s smooth riding quality proved a good design.
The one thing I have noticed is the a photo of the interior on unit 207 shows blue coloured grab poles, seat handles and coloured strip on the overhead racks, but 201 and 202 at least appear to be green coloured from some video's I've seen as per 387/1.
Seems slightly strange to change the colour after only a few units delivered even if I think the blue looks better. or perhaps a hint of wanting to supply these trains with as few changes as possible from a 387/1
Seems slightly strange to change the colour after only a few units delivered even if I think the blue looks better. or perhaps a hint of wanting to supply these trains with as few changes as possible from a 387/1
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202 was the unit i viewed today. It has the light blue handrails.
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Abellio Greater anglia 1st class, compared to what Gatwick Express are going to get!
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southern442
Established Member
The interior of these trains is so cheap and nasty. It is absolutely disgusting how people will be paying loads of money to travel on something that is less comfortable than the alternative, AND a fair chunk of the alternative trains have a proper first class. I do hope that the rail industry quickly moves on from these horrible seats and interior design.
There were some unit moves today.
5Y88 11:10 Stewarts Lane T&RSMD-Lovers Walk T&RSMD 12:42
5Y92 12:20 Lovers Walk T&RSMD-Three Bridges Tilgate Sidings 13:10
5Y93 13:35 Three Bridges Tilgate Sidings-Stewarts Lane T&RSMD 15:10
and 387207/210 on the Bletchley-Brighton-Bletchley circuit.
5Y88 11:10 Stewarts Lane T&RSMD-Lovers Walk T&RSMD 12:42
5Y92 12:20 Lovers Walk T&RSMD-Three Bridges Tilgate Sidings 13:10
5Y93 13:35 Three Bridges Tilgate Sidings-Stewarts Lane T&RSMD 15:10
and 387207/210 on the Bletchley-Brighton-Bletchley circuit.
tsr
Established Member
387203 / 206
202 was the unit i viewed today. It has the light blue handrails.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Abellio Greater anglia 1st class, compared to what Gatwick Express are going to get!
Ok I stand corrected on that then, I agree they should have better 1st as should the 387/1 I wonder if there will be any change when they go to GWR.
southern442
Established Member
It will be funny when they go to GWR because it will mean that their intercity trains will have the same design of seat as their local trains which is laughable.
Class377/5
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Deepgreen
Established Member
A pair of 387/2s were standing at platform 3 at Purley this evening (1723ish) adorned with full GX decals including gigantic "GX" logos on one of the middle coaches of each unit and a horizontal white or silver (I couldn't tell which in the dark) stripe under the windows.
Shortly afterwards we came to a stand at Stoats Nest Junction waiting to cross from the Quarry to the Redhill lines for five minutes while the signaller let a Thameslink 387/1 working (which had been several minutes behind us) overtake us on the slow lines - the conductor's exasperation at this signalling decision was very clear from his announcement apologising for the delay!
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Agreed - the design of train interiors today has gone horribly wrong, with no logic being applied. Why, for example, is first class being so devalued by GTR/Southern/GX, yet still being provided? Are they trying to provoke so many complaints that they subsequently can claim justification for withdrawing it? Why couldn't Southern's 377/6 and /7 units have had electronic signs to indicate whether first class is in operation? Why do those units have 2/3 of a single coach designated as first class (when applied) so that anyone boarding it who hasn't noticed from the tiny stickers and the partially-present anti-macassars that it is first class, then has to walk through 2/3 of a coach, rather than the previous sensible convention of a small section in each driving car?
Shortly afterwards we came to a stand at Stoats Nest Junction waiting to cross from the Quarry to the Redhill lines for five minutes while the signaller let a Thameslink 387/1 working (which had been several minutes behind us) overtake us on the slow lines - the conductor's exasperation at this signalling decision was very clear from his announcement apologising for the delay!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Agreed - the design of train interiors today has gone horribly wrong, with no logic being applied. Why, for example, is first class being so devalued by GTR/Southern/GX, yet still being provided? Are they trying to provoke so many complaints that they subsequently can claim justification for withdrawing it? Why couldn't Southern's 377/6 and /7 units have had electronic signs to indicate whether first class is in operation? Why do those units have 2/3 of a single coach designated as first class (when applied) so that anyone boarding it who hasn't noticed from the tiny stickers and the partially-present anti-macassars that it is first class, then has to walk through 2/3 of a coach, rather than the previous sensible convention of a small section in each driving car?
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The Box Photter
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Only 2/3 of a carriage as first class? Wait till the public see that out of the swishy new Class 700 12 car Thameslink trains, two carriages are entirely 1st class!
The only people using those carriages will be MPs, people travelling on a ticket bought by their employer, Govia staff, fare dodgers and vagrants.
The only people using those carriages will be MPs, people travelling on a ticket bought by their employer, Govia staff, fare dodgers and vagrants.
No they're not. It's two half carriages, one of which (at least) is likely to be declassified.
Deepgreen
Established Member
It's actually for a five car unit for the 377/6 and /7s, and I expect the first class on a 700 will be both not worth its label and subject to variability of actual provision up until they actually enter service.
andrewkeith5
Member
I'm pretty sure the 12-car 700 I saw only had a half carriage of first class at each end, if that...
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