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Class 387

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12CSVT

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Possibly
1240 BDM TBD (arr 1451)
1514 TBD BDM (arr 1719)
1740 BDM TBD (arr 1951)

BDM = Bedford, TBD = Three Bridges

Note this is just what is printed in the timetable, so no guarantee the above is correct.
 
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JonathanH

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Possibly
1240 BDM TBD (arr 1451)
1514 TBD BDM (arr 1719)
1740 BDM TBD (arr 1951)

BDM = Bedford, TBD = Three Bridges

Note this is just what is printed in the timetable, so no guarantee the above is correct.

Thameslink trains are running to Brighton today so what you set out above doesn't look right.

How about:

2W39 1240 Bedford to Brighton 1514
1W44 1534 Brighton to Bedford 1805
1W57 1824 Bedford to Brighton 2055
5B55 2105 Brighton to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D 2125

Obviously, still a guess.
 

AM9

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Are you calling people on Thameslink bums?!! /QUOTE]

Only part of them! :)

As for long leisure journeys, of course they'll be the minority as an overall percentage of usage, but with fixed 8 and 12 car trains running these long routes regularly, the DfT must see most of the growth from encouraging more leisure travel on them outside the peaks.

Well a lightly loaded 700 should have plenty of space for family paraphenalia. Of course not everybody can be pleased with any single type of seat but many will probabli find the ambience OK e.g. Bald Rick. On a long journey the availibility of open floor space should give an ambience that doesn't really deter significant numbers of leisure travellers.
Back to 387s though, this does seem to be Bombardier's answer to low-cost high density seating that is compliant with current H & S regulations and pays some attention to orthopaedic recommendations.
 

LBSCR Times

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Thameslink trains are running to Brighton today so what you set out above doesn't look right.

How about:

2W39 1240 Bedford to Brighton 1514
1W44 1534 Brighton to Bedford 1805
1W57 1824 Bedford to Brighton 2055
5B55 2105 Brighton to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D 2125

Obviously, still a guess.

One of the 8 car diagrams is being covered by an 8.377, and there ia an 8.387 running empty (5W99) from Lovers Walk to Cauldwell this afternoon too, ready for Monday morning.
 
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Starmill

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2W47 1440 Bedford to Brighton was 2x 387 just seen at E&C. Looks like 1734 departure from BTN? Is there still just one pair in service?
 

21C101

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It should be 40 mins. for the last time ever (certainly on an Electrostar), but who knows how well the core will work with ATO and shiny new 700s, (complete with nice firm seats)!

Think you will find the 700s are rather more comfortable, thank heavens.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/12209561714/


http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/...700demo_excel_s11_290113_firstaccomm1_600.jpg

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/..._excel_s11_290113_wheelchairposition1_600.jpg


You may like "rock hard and bolt upright as MK Tom puts it but I don't and I am most certainly not the only one.
 
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AM9

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Well clearly the first class seats are better than the 377/7 & 387 ones but the second class ironing board doesn't look that much better, and if the padding is softer, the heavy use that they will get means that passengers will feel the frames as they sit.

You may like "rock hard and bolt upright as MK Tom puts it but I don't and I am most certainly not the only one.

We can both gather anecdotal opinions from those that have experienced the seats, but neither are more than that, just anecdotal. Wait until there are hoardes of passengers missing one or two 387s to get on a 377/2 or /5, or just standing. instead. Every time the seats are changed in trains, somebody complains, - I clearly remeber the demise the MKI straw-filled trampolines and the howls of those claiming that the loss represent the end of civilisation as we know it.
The bottom line is that national rail train operating in the UK is now just a commercial business' and given the lack of real choice that the majority of London's travellers have, the operators will do whatever they can get away with within the rules of their franchise contract to maximise their profits. So if Bombardier or Siemens offer seats with less padding than some passengers want for a lower operator cost, the procuring and operating TOCs will go for them.
 
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21C101

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The bottom line is that national rail train operating in the UK is now just a commercial business' and given the lack of real choice that the majority of London's travellers have, the operators will do whatever they can get away with within the rules of their franchise contract to maximise their profits. So if Bombardier or Siemens offer seats with less padding than some passengers want for a lower operator cost, the procuring and operating TOCs will go for them.

It was a commercial business prior to 1948 and that resulted in seats that passengers visiting the Bluebell railway riding in Bulleid stock now regaularly think are first class because they are so comfortable.

However, I do think that the franchise system does encourage, short term, cheap as possible thinking of the type you describe.

The problem with that strategy is that people do have a choice, and that is now starting to include the peak hour travellers, due to the creeping spreading of working at home, as broadband systems get fast enough to support computers communicating at home with office servers as fast as they do in the office, plus the collapse in weight of laptops means taking it home is far less of a chore. The recent spread of unlimited broadband packages and shift in telephone billing toward fixed fee rather than usage based charges is also encouraging this.

Just as the invention of the Telephone helped to for the London and Blackwall railway as shipping agents could phone the docks rather than have to travel there, high speed broadband enabling working from home will before too long impact the commuter franchises.

Obviously the traffic won't disappear altogether but there will be a shift to less trips and trips made in off peak hours instead of during the peak (when of course driving is a lot more feasible)

The recent fall in Petrol Prices and completion of the rebuilding of the M1 and M25 areas paralleling the Thameslink route may also result in pax deciding to drive to Stanmore, High Barnet or Cockfosters if the seats are uncomfortable.

I have an uncomfortable feeling that technology is going to put a stop to the year on year pax numbers quite soon.
 

Crossover

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Me and starmill did manage to chase them to West Hampstead Thameslink and took 387105 and 387110 through to St Pancras. Got some photos between us.

The seating is pretty bad - not very comfortable at all.
 

causton

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I didn't think the seats were too bad! Perhaps I am just less picky with my seats, or perhaps it's because I'm used to seats on buses, but I didn't find them particularly uncomfortable. I'm in a pretty slim minority I'm guessing!
 

southern442

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I didn't think the seats were too bad! Perhaps I am just less picky with my seats, or perhaps it's because I'm used to seats on buses, but I didn't find them particularly uncomfortable. I'm in a pretty slim minority I'm guessing!

The comfort of the seats is not the only thing though, the fact is is that the seating layout, which is similar to that of a tram, is totally inadequate for journeys of 1 hour +.
 

Aictos

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I didn't think the seats were too bad! Perhaps I am just less picky with my seats, or perhaps it's because I'm used to seats on buses, but I didn't find them particularly uncomfortable. I'm in a pretty slim minority I'm guessing!

Like me, I've done London Victoria to Brighton return on both 377/6s and 377/7s and struggled to suffer from any form of back pain as a result of the seating.

Maybe like you I just don't try hard enough to find fault with trains... <D
 

MCR247

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I remember riding on my first 377/6 and expecting the worst, however I was very pleasantly surprised about how comfortable (to me anyway) they were when I sat down

Dont know what all the fuss is about :P
 

Aictos

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I remember riding on my first 377/6 and expecting the worst, however I was very pleasantly surprised about how comfortable (to me anyway) they were when I sat down

Dont know what all the fuss is about :P

Exactly, I had work to do on the train so being worried about the quality of the seat wasn't important, I was more concerned with having space to work and having access to a power socket.
 

hassaanhc

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The comfort of the seats is not the only thing though, the fact is is that the seating layout, which is similar to that of a tram, is totally inadequate for journeys of 1 hour +.

Like me, I've done London Victoria to Brighton return on both 377/6s and 377/7s and struggled to suffer from any form of back pain as a result of the seating.

Maybe like you I just don't try hard enough to find fault with trains... <D

I remember riding on my first 377/6 and expecting the worst, however I was very pleasantly surprised about how comfortable (to me anyway) they were when I sat down

Dont know what all the fuss is about :P

I find them ok too, certainly better than the 3+2 ones used on the older ones. If you want a hard seat which really doesn't have padding (which already applies to the previous 3+2 seats anyway), try the Jubilee line 96ts, one of the Northern line 95ts refurbs, or even better the DLR B07 stock.
 

Starmill

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Far from outstanding photography from me I'm afraid. Note the absolutely bizarre nature of the First Class and 'popular First' at the front.

Addition: seats absolutely shocking. Never ever want to sit on that again in my life!
 

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AM9

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The comfort of the seats is not the only thing though, the fact is is that the seating layout, which is similar to that of a tram, is totally inadequate for journeys of 1 hour +.

Could you explain the similarity to tram seating layouts please?
 

causton

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The comfort of the seats is not the only thing though, the fact is is that the seating layout, which is similar to that of a tram, is totally inadequate for journeys of 1 hour +.

Tram? There are quite a few full size tables in each carriage! The layout is a lot better than the 700s will be, looking at the designs of those!
 

47802

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Could you explain the similarity to tram seating layouts please?

Yeh I would like to know what that means as well seems like a fairly standard
2 + 2 layout to me.

Ive been on a 377/6 but not a 387 as yet, the seats are certainly firm but then as has been said that's meant to be good for posture, I think its case that you will get used to them after a while.
 

Crossover

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Here are a few of my attempts at photography - my phone battery died (with 25% supposedly remaining) but I luckily had my camera on me
 

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jon0844

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The carpet reminds me of the 379s. Presumably Southern didn't specify anything special for the carpet then, or it might have been a pastel blue or green too.

I do think the 379s look very nice inside and wish these didn't have the blues and greens, but hey ho.
 

Crossover

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Travelled 1st Class on a couple of 379's today - very very nice! As with the 172's, they are somewhat lacking in buttons however (in one particular area, only 3 buttons out of 10 were still there!) - hopefully the 387's do better on that front
 

jon0844

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You'd sincerely hope that after the problems on other stock, Bombardier wouldn't be ordering those buttons ever again!
 

physics34

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Like me, I've done London Victoria to Brighton return on both 377/6s and 377/7s and struggled to suffer from any form of back pain as a result of the seating.

Maybe like you I just don't try hard enough to find fault with trains... <D

It's more the hardness of the seat base than the back...Not good when you have piles, haha.

The straightness of the seats is quite comfortable though.
 

21C101

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It's more the hardness of the seat base than the back...Not good when you have piles, haha.

The straightness of the seats is quite comfortable though.

Yes, I don't have a great problem with the seat backs (although I would rather they were not so high - but that seems to be the latest H&S fad), but the bases do have the give of a park bench.
 

MCR247

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Here are a few of my attempts at photography - my phone battery died (with 25% supposedly remaining) but I luckily had my camera on me

Wasn't an iPhone by any chance was it? Both my 3GS and 4S went through stages of 'running out of battery' on 45+% <(
 
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