Class 387

[MCR247]

These aren't the GatEx units, that's the next batch (/2s presumably?)

 

[ModernRailways]

As I may be going to Luton next April to ride the Busway there, I hope some 387s are in service by then. Mind you, I wonder whether they will be introduced on Gatwick Express services first.

They will definitely be in service then. They will be with Thameslink for a few months before then moving on to their more permanent homes.

The Gat Ex stock hasn't been ordered yet, but this batch could end up running the Gat Ex, it all depends how Southern want to use them when they come off Thameslink.

 

[physics34]

A picture of when the 387 reached 110 mph.

Ah, I notice DAS (Driver advisory system) built into the speedo....!

 

[jopsuk]

Ah, I notice DAS (Driver advisory system) built into the speedo....!

Nah, that's for warning the driver that they're approaching Brighton a bit quickly

 

[physics34]

Nah, that's for warning the driver that they're approaching Brighton a bit quickly

 

[47802]

They will definitely be in service then. They will be with Thameslink for a few months before then moving on to their more permanent homes.

The Gat Ex stock hasn't been ordered yet, but this batch could end up running the Gat Ex, it all depends how Southern want to use them when they come off Thameslink.

I suspect that more likely depends on how DFT want to use them when they come off Thameslink

 

[swt_passenger]

I suspect that more likely depends on how DFT want to use them when they come off Thameslink

As you say, and my interpretation of the TSGN ITT is that the 387s are not 'Southerns' units by now anyway. They were ordered by Southern as DfT's agents in a different manner to all the earlier batches of 377/5s and 377/2s, the lists of stock in the TSGN ITT do not include the relevant 'note 2' (that defines the sub leased Southern Units) with the 387s. I don't think that is accidental.

I really do think that other hypothetical short term uses (i.e. anything other than going to Thameslink to release older stock) are just confusing the issue.

 

[47802]

As you say, and my interpretation of the TSGN ITT is that the 387s are not 'Southerns' units by now anyway. They were ordered by Southern as DfT's agents in a different manner to all the earlier batches of 377/5s and 377/2s, the lists of stock in the TSGN ITT do not include the relevant 'note 2' (that defines the sub leased Southern Units) with the 387s. I don't think that is accidental.

I really do think that other hypothetical short term uses (i.e. anything other than going to Thameslink to release older stock) are just confusing the issue.

My money is on FGW along with an additional order for FGW, possibly 319's for local services around Bristol/Cardiff, that then that potentially leaves a large fleet of 319's to cascade to regional electrification scheme's, but that's pure speculation on my part.

 

[swt_passenger]

My money is on FGW along with an additional order for FGW, possibly 319's for local services around Bristol/Cardiff, that then that potentially leaves a large fleet of 319's to cascade to regional electrification scheme's, but that's pure speculation on my part.

I agree, but when I refer to 'short term' above I'm meaning the first weeks and months immediately after delivery; such as in early 2015.

What we seem to be getting is some posters suggesting they'll be used somewhere else from new, for which I can find no evidence or justification.

 

[47802]

I agree, but when I refer to 'short term' above I'm meaning the first weeks and months immediately after delivery; such as in early 2015.

What we seem to be getting is some posters suggesting they'll be used somewhere else from new, for which I can find no evidence or justification.

Indeed the whole thing seems to causing confusion, there is also the Gatwick Express order which everybody seem to think will be 387's due to the tight delivery timescale as well, but that seems to be delayed, also if the Thameslink 387's did go the FGW would that cause a shift in Priority after the 14 x 319's are released to Northern to release 387's instead of 319's?

 

[Class377/5]

There will be multiple 387s in service by year ends on current commissioning timelines.

I'm expecting first next month unless there's any last minute problem. 101-113 are all now built with 105/106 at Bletchley.

The 'current' 387 batches

29x four car 387/1 under construction built Mar 14 - Dec 14
27x four car 387/2* GatEx awaiting treasury sign off build planned Jan 15 - Aug 15
26x four car 387/3* order is expected by Bombardier, unknown TOC currently build planned Sept 15 - early 2016

The 387/3* build will be the final ever Electrostar order with only Aventra being offered going forward.

* numbering is a guess and used to clear up any confusion between batches

 

[Techniquest]

I've only just come to this thread, but it appears their use is not definitely known yet then.

However I was of the impression GatEx weren't to get their new stock until 2018. Has that potentially changed?

Looks like I'll be down in London more often next year then when this fleet begins use!

 

[Class377/5]

I've only just come to this thread, but it appears their use is not definitely known yet then.

However I was of the impression GatEx weren't to get their new stock until 2018. Has that potentially changed?

Looks like I'll be down in London more often next year then when this fleet begins use!

GatEx was to have completely replaced stock by Dec 2015 for the timetable change in that month with 442s staying on in part another two years was part of Govia's bid for TSGN. As franchise is actually a management contract, it requires governmental sign off before ordering any thing including things in the bid.

 

[Techniquest]

I've only just come to this thread, but it appears their use is not definitely known yet then.

However I was of the impression GatEx weren't to get their new stock until 2018. Has that potentially changed?

Looks like I'll be down in London more often next year then when this fleet begins use!

GatEx was to have completely replaced stock by Dec 2015 for the timetable change in that month with 442s staying on in part another two years was part of Govia's bid for TSGN. As franchise is actually a management contract, it requires governmental sign off before ordering any thing including things in the bid.

Ahhh, thanks for the gen there.

Think I need to review the whole thread at some point, something to do later hopefully. Although I will concur with others that they would be wasted on GW.

 

[317 forever]

They will definitely be in service then. They will be with Thameslink for a few months before then moving on to their more permanent homes.

The Gat Ex stock hasn't been ordered yet, but this batch could end up running the Gat Ex, it all depends how Southern want to use them when they come off Thameslink.

Thank you, and for letting me know so soon. This feels really reassuring!

As you say, and my interpretation of the TSGN ITT is that the 387s are not 'Southerns' units by now anyway. They were ordered by Southern as DfT's agents in a different manner to all the earlier batches of 377/5s and 377/2s, the lists of stock in the TSGN ITT do not include the relevant 'note 2' (that defines the sub leased Southern Units) with the 387s. I don't think that is accidental.

I really do think that other hypothetical short term uses (i.e. anything other than going to Thameslink to release older stock) are just confusing the issue.

The Modern Railways article this month on Thameslink points to 387s that start out on Thameslink eventually going to Great Western when 700s come into service.

 

[Bishopstone]

I had assumed the GatEx 387 order would feature a different interior layout to the 387/1s, with more luggage space and a First Class section befitting a 'premium' service (ie not just the Standard seats with anti-macassars slung over the back).

I've not heard the suggestion that 387/1s might feature on GatEx before.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Modern Railways article this month on Thameslink points to 387s that start out on Thameslink eventually going to Great Western when 700s come into service.

I know, and I've written the same in another thread - the problem is this conversation is going on in about 3 different places now.

 

[KX03HZY]

There will be multiple 387s in service by year ends on current commissioning timelines.

I'm expecting first next month unless there's any last minute problem. 101-113 are all now built with 105/106 at Bletchley.

The 'current' 387 batches

29x four car 387/1 under construction built Mar 14 - Dec 14
27x four car 387/2* GatEx awaiting treasury sign off build planned Jan 15 - Aug 15
26x four car 387/3* order is expected by Bombardier, unknown TOC currently build planned Sept 15 - early 2016

The 387/3* build will be the final ever Electrostar order with only Aventra being offered going forward.

* numbering is a guess and used to clear up any confusion between batches

387/3 to EMT?

 

[Class377/5]

The Modern Railways article this month on Thameslink points to 387s that start out on Thameslink eventually going to Great Western when 700s come into service.

Not quiet. It states final destination is Great Western. The 387 leave in two batches which according to the ITT, one is Dec 2016 where ten units are released. The remaining 19 units leave in Dec 2018.

I had assumed the GatEx 387 order would feature a different interior layout to the 387/1s, with more luggage space and a First Class section befitting a 'premium' service (ie not just the Standard seats with anti-macassars slung over the back).

We've already been told the GatEx will have a different interior similar to another train in service. A DC version of the 379 seems sensible.

I've not heard the suggestion that 387/1s might feature on GatEx before.

Think suggestions of happening is due to peoples confusion when they assume only 387s are the Thameslink units.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

387/3 to EMT?

Was this potential order maybe the Scotrail requirement (now going to Hitachi)?

 

[47802]

Was this potential order maybe the Scotrail requirement (now going to Hitachi)?

If you look at the numbers involved and delivery dates I think that is unlikely, and given the less tight timescale for Scotrail and potentially quite long delivery period, I imagine that Bombardier would have proposed Aventra rather than Electrostar, and particularly as they would be up against this new Hitachi design and presumably Desiro City, which Aventra is meant to compete with.

My view is that the initial 10 units to leave Thameslink will go to FGW along with the 3rd batch, and the 19 units that leave Thameslink in 2018 will go to EMT, but then hey what do I know.

 

[Chris125]

Was this potential order maybe the Scotrail requirement (now going to Hitachi)?

I don't believe so, the Scotrail units have always been envisaged as 23m units.

Chris

 

[MCR247]

If you look at the numbers involved and delivery dates I think that is unlikely, and given the less tight timescale for Scotrail and potentially quite long delivery period, I imagine that Bombardier would have proposed Aventra rather than Electrostar, and particularly as they would be up against this new Hitachi design and presumably Desiro City, which Aventra is meant to compete with.

My view is that the initial 10 units to leave Thameslink will go to FGW along with the 3rd batch, and the 19 units that leave Thameslink in 2018 will go to EMT, but then hey what do I know.

Would EMT need 19 units?

 

[47802]

Would EMT need 19 units?

Not sure isn't Corby supposed to have a half hourly service after electrification and isn't there suggestion that these could be up to 12 coaches long.

Half hourly service would need a I think a minimum of 6 Units, if they operated as 6 x 3 car sets, that's up to 18 plus a maintenance spare.

 

[Class377/5]

387107 is currently being dragged on 7X33 16+50 Derby Litchurch Lane to Bletchley CS.

This is the 3rd unit to be delivered, along with 105/106.

 

[westcoaster]

Have 105/106 left the warmth of the depot yet.

 

[Class377/5]

Have 105/106 left the warmth of the depot yet.

Not yet. Testing is going to start shortly with 12 car AC testing, something only now achievable. DC testing with start soon after. Plan is limited use in service before years end. Should be a 387 in service in time to serve London Bridge to Blackfriars.

 

[MCR247]

Not sure isn't Corby supposed to have a half hourly service after electrification and isn't there suggestion that these could be up to 12 coaches long.



Half hourly service would need a I think a minimum of 6 Units, if they operated as 6 x 3 car sets, that's up to 18 plus a maintenance spare.

I doubt it will need a 12 car half hourly set! I think 8 car hourly would do the job

 

[Class377/5]

I doubt it will need a 12 car half hourly set! I think 8 car hourly would do the job

Network Rail is working under the assumption of an 2tph service with 4 car in off peak and 12 car peak services.

387107 has arrived at Bletchley.

EDIT:

387102 is now on its way to Bletchley.

 

[acmw421]

Was this potential order maybe the Scotrail requirement (now going to Hitachi)?

The Southern Electric Group suggests that these might be replacing Southern's 455s - apparently GTR have said (according to the Group magazine 'Live Rail') that there will be (a) more 10 car suburban workings and (b) less use of older 455 units circa 2018.