Class 387

[The Box Photter]

I have actually seen an improvement in cleanliness since Thameslink took over!

They're cleaner because they're spending more time in the sidings/depot broken down.

More train failures this evening on Thameslink including the cursed 1W90!

 

[BingBong50]

I'm starting to get a bit lost with this thread and the one on 319 cascade to Northern!

In summary when will Thameslink services all be covered by 377's and / or 387's or is that not going to happen before the 700's start coming into service?

 

[samuelmorris]

There aren't enough 377/5s and 387s to run every Thameslink service (55 including the 377/2s I think, versus 86 319s), I believe the intention is to replace all 319s on Bedford-Brighton services, leaving the 319s to the Kentish Town-Sevenoaks and Sutton loop services until enough 700s arrive to replace them. Since the 377/387s I believe are staying until there's a unit surplus, I imagine the 319s on the shorter routes will disappear in favour of 700s before many 700s end up doing Bedford-Brighton.

 

[petersi]

There aren't enough 377/5s and 387s to run every Thameslink service (55 including the 377/2s I think, versus 86 319s), I believe the intention is to replace all 319s on Bedford-Brighton services, leaving the 319s to the Kentish Town-Sevenoaks and Sutton loop services until enough 700s arrive to replace them. Since the 377/387s I believe are staying until there's a unit surplus, I imagine the 319s on the shorter routes will disappear in favour of 700s before many 700s end up doing Bedford-Brighton.

Not convinced
19 class 377 are to be used on the fen line from May 2017
Plus 25 class 377 have go to south Eastern at some point so class 700 May be introduced on the Brighton route at an early stage.

It may also depend on the delivery schedule of how the 12 and 8 car units are delivered

 

[RobShipway]

Not convinced
19 class 377 are to be used on the fen line from May 2017
Plus 25 class 377 have go to south Eastern at some point so class 700 May be introduced on the Brighton route at an early stage.

It may also depend on the delivery schedule of how the 12 and 8 car units are delivered

I would have thought the Class 700s would be introduced on the Brighton mainline first.

 

[Domh245]

The units going to south-eastern are from Southern, not thameslink (which are to all intents the same company - but in all likelihood, it will be single voltage units that go). The left-over 319s are going to be part of the cascade that will free up DMUs around the country, so surely the political pressure would be on getting those to their new operators ASAP, whilst the electrostars keep on going for a bit longer.

 

[samuelmorris]

Indeed, I thought Southeastern were getting the 377/1s, nothing to do with Thameslink. Whilst I agree it would seem logical to give Bedford-Brighton the new units first (which they might do) I thought they wanted to get the 319s gone sooner rather than later for cascade reasons. As far as I'm aware the 377s never work the Wimbledon loop / Sevenoaks services and never will, so they will need to keep the 319s on those until the 700s arrive - on that basis it seems more logical they keep Bedford-Brighton mostly Electrostars until enough 700s have arrived to start displacing them without holding up the 319 cascade...

 

[JaJaWa]

Indeed, I thought Southeastern were getting the 377/1s, nothing to do with Thameslink. Whilst I agree it would seem logical to give Bedford-Brighton the new units first (which they might do) I thought they wanted to get the 319s gone sooner rather than later for cascade reasons. As far as I'm aware the 377s never work the Wimbledon loop / Sevenoaks services and never will, so they will need to keep the 319s on those until the 700s arrive - on that basis it seems more logical they keep Bedford-Brighton mostly Electrostars until enough 700s have arrived to start displacing them without holding up the 319 cascade...

377s occasionally work the Wimbledon loop.

 

[Domh245]

Not on a regular basis though. The last time I saw a 377 going round the loop was when a single 377/3 substituted for an 8 car 455 on a southern service, and that was a while ago. Last regular service 377 was again one of the southern services, and that changed stock about a year ago. I don't think I've ever seen a TL (or FCC) 377 on the loop

 

[petersi]

Indeed, I thought Southeastern were getting the 377/1s, nothing to do with Thameslink. reasons.

I thought the units would be freed up by Thames link taking over routes to places like Horsham that are not currently thameslink

 

[samuelmorris]

377s occasionally work the Wimbledon loop.

Fair enough, but not under Thameslink I didn't think?

 

[JaJaWa]

Fair enough, but not under Thameslink I didn't think?

Under FCC - yes, they did - not sure if they have yet under GTR.

 

[Class377/5]

We are drifting a bit now.

There aren't enough 377/5s and 387s to run every Thameslink service (55 including the 377/2s I think, versus 86 319s), I believe the intention is to replace all 319s on Bedford-Brighton services, leaving the 319s to the Kentish Town-Sevenoaks and Sutton loop services until enough 700s arrive to replace them. Since the 377/387s I believe are staying until there's a unit surplus, I imagine the 319s on the shorter routes will disappear in favour of 700s before many 700s end up doing Bedford-Brighton.

Sound logic until you realise that the post May 2015 routes for the 319s are 8 cars only and the initial batch of Class 700s are 12 cars.

Not convinced
19 class 377 are to be used on the fen line from May 2017
Plus 25 class 377 have go to south Eastern at some point so class 700 May be introduced on the Brighton route at an early stage.

It may also depend on the delivery schedule of how the 12 and 8 car units are delivered

Basically they are expected over in batches of various sizes.

The 25x 377s need to be released for Jan 2018.

I would have thought the Class 700s would be introduced on the Brighton mainline first.

Correct.

The units going to south-eastern are from Southern, not thameslink (which are to all intents the same company - but in all likelihood, it will be single voltage units that go). The left-over 319s are going to be part of the cascade that will free up DMUs around the country, so surely the political pressure would be on getting those to their new operators ASAP, whilst the electrostars keep on going for a bit longer.

No the units released initially are six DV 377s. The batch of 25 are going to be DC only.

377s occasionally work the Wimbledon loop.

Only in major disruption, never booked and happened twice in five years on Thameslink.

I thought the units would be freed up by Thames link taking over routes to places like Horsham that are not currently thameslink

Correct. One use of a Class 700 on the East Grinstead branch for example is to release 4x 377/3 for Metro to create a couple more 10 cars.

Under FCC - yes, they did - not sure if they have yet under GTR.

There's some reasons I cant go in to but 377s don't go around the Loop under FCC and same with GTR. Southern has stopped booked working 377s around the Loop too, tho a single 377/6 has been sighted in major disruption.

 

[BingBong50]

There aren't enough 377/5s and 387s to run every Thameslink service (55 including the 377/2s I think, versus 86 319s), I believe the intention is to replace all 319s on Bedford-Brighton services, leaving the 319s to the Kentish Town-Sevenoaks and Sutton loop services until enough 700s arrive to replace them. Since the 377/387s I believe are staying until there's a unit surplus, I imagine the 319s on the shorter routes will disappear in favour of 700s before many 700s end up doing Bedford-Brighton.

So roughly when is it intended that all 387's are in service by?

When will the first delivery of 700's come into service?

When is it intended that all 319's will be gone elsewhere?

 

[Class377/5]

So roughly when is it intended that all 387's are in service by?

Before May timetable change

When will the first delivery of 700's come into service?

First delivery is August 2015, first in service is April 2016.

When is it intended that all 319's will be gone elsewhere?

319s should be gone by late 2017.

 

[hwl]

First delivery is August 2015, first in service is April 2015.
.

In service before they get delivered

 

[samj]

Will these be in traffic Monday or Tuesday? Am hoping to get out and photo them. Many thanks for info in advance!

 

[hassaanhc]

Southern have used 377s to/from Wimbledon a couple of times this week.
Monday 1 December, 1824 South Bermondsey to Wimbledon and 1920 Wimbledon to London Bridge were 3 coaches instead of 4 (though could always be a 455 with a coach locked out).
Wednesday 3 December, 0702 Wimbledon to London Bridge was 5 coaches instead of 8.
Not the full loop, but still part of it.

 

[Class2ldn]

4 car 377s are allowed to sevenoaks but only in daylight and over certain lines. Never known a 377 go round the loop. I was told however that they could start running them round there soon as just 4 cars.

 

[Metobusfan]

Not on a regular basis though. The last time I saw a 377 going round the loop was when a single 377/3 substituted for an 8 car 455 on a southern service, and that was a while ago. Last regular service 377 was again one of the southern services, and that changed stock about a year ago. I don't think I've ever seen a TL (or FCC) 377 on the loop

A few years ago during disruption a 377 want from Luton to sutton

 

[Class377/5]

377s around the loop on Thameslink and Southern are rare now for various reasons. Won't change much until 700 introduction.

Will these be in traffic Monday or Tuesday? Am hoping to get out and photo them. Many thanks for info in advance!

Plan is yes.

 

[samj]

Has anyone received any info for these units going into traffic tomorrow? Many thanks!

 

[Class377/5]

Has anyone received any info for these units going into traffic tomorrow? Many thanks!

105/106 in service early tomorrow morning. 3 round trips.

 

[JonathanH]

105/106 in service early tomorrow morning. 3 round trips.

So, how close would I be if I guessed as follows?

5T02 0450 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Brighton 0526
2T02 0540 Brighton to Bedford 0803
2T23 0824 Bedford to Brighton 1047
Split
1T18 1104 Brighton to Bedford 1319
5T18 1320 Bedford to Bedford C S 1335
Other unit works
2T30 1107 Brighton to Bedford
5G30 1337 Bedford to Bedford C S 1401
Reattach
5G41 1428 Bedford C S to Bedford 1431
1T41 1440 Bedford to Brighton 1655
1W97 1724 Brighton to Bedford 1955
5Y97 2006 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings 2022
5Y73 2048 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford 2120
2T73 2122 Bedford to Brighton 2345
5T73 0005 Brighton to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D 0025

It fits with the VAR and STP on the trips from and into Lovers Walk. Seems a bit odd to have a split on the first day of use but I guess they have passed all their testing.

I hope I'm right and it stays out all day since I can then get first day haulage on the last working tonight.

 

[Class377/5]

So, how close would I be if I guessed as follows?

5T02 0450 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Brighton 0526
2T02 0540 Brighton to Bedford 0803
2T23 0824 Bedford to Brighton 1047
Split
1T18 1104 Brighton to Bedford 1319
5T18 1320 Bedford to Bedford C S 1335
Other unit works
2T30 1107 Brighton to Bedford
5G30 1337 Bedford to Bedford C S 1401
Reattach
5G41 1428 Bedford C S to Bedford 1431
1T41 1440 Bedford to Brighton 1655
1W97 1724 Brighton to Bedford 1955
5Y97 2006 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings 2022
5Y73 2048 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford 2120
2T73 2122 Bedford to Brighton 2345
5T73 0005 Brighton to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D 0025

It fits with the VAR and STP on the trips from and into Lovers Walk. Seems a bit odd to have a split on the first day of use but I guess they have passed all their testing.

I hope I'm right and it stays out all day since I can then get first day haulage on the last working tonight.

Not quite.

05:40 Brighton to Bedford
08:24 Bedford to Brighton
11:07 Brighton to Bedford
14:40 Bedford to Brighton
17:24 Brighton to Bedford
21:22 Bedford to Brighton

No splitting today. Diagrams altered to allow this.

387105/106 formed the first workings this morning.

 

[Mike395]

On the 0824 and I must say I'm a fan so far! Much quieter than the 377s and the 2+2 seating throughout (with reasonable seats) is an improvement!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
('Luton Airport Parkway' appears to have escaped being loaded into the PIS...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Second PIS failure - 'London Overground' at West Hampstead is announced verbally as London Underground!

 

[Fincra5]

On the 0824 and I must say I'm a fan so far! Much quieter than the 377s and the 2+2 seating throughout (with reasonable seats) is an improvement!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
('Luton Airport Parkway' appears to have escaped being loaded into the PIS...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Second PIS failure - 'London Overground' at West Hampstead is announced verbally as London Underground!

People who complain about the 1st Class on the 377/2s for TLK won't be happy

 

[Mike395]

People who complain about the 1st Class on the 377/2s for TLK won't be happy

Quite! Had a wander through to see what it looks like (no partition doors, identical seats and not even guaranteed a table!) - and the fact there's at-seat power in Standard now will make them even worse :P

 

[Class377/5]

387105 awaiting its first trip

387105 at Brighton station by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr

387106 at Haywards Heath

387106 at Haywards Heath by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr

 

[physics34]

Quite! Had a wander through to see what it looks like (no partition doors, identical seats and not even guaranteed a table!) - and the fact there's at-seat power in Standard now will make them even worse :P

never understand this. Considering GTR management will use first class why don't they want it to be extra comfy etc etc.