Class 37 operation in Cumbria suspended over safety concerns?

[northwichcat]

I've seen posted on another forum that the hired in 37s on on the Cumbrian Coast have currently been taken out of service over safety concerns and apparently that was the underlying reason behind the Manchester and Liverpool area issues on Friday evening.

Northern were 2 x 319s down due to ongoing reliability issues in the evening peak on Friday and they had no option but to cancel services between both Lime Street and Victoria and Lime Street and Manchester Airport due to DMU diagrams already being short formed due to the unavailability of the loco-hauled sets in Cumbria. The usual solution to a 319 shortage is to de-strengthen a DMU diagram and to run all services but with less carriages on some services.

 

[185143]

I was on the 37s yesterday, whilst (very) delayed, they did both run. 37423 failed in service at Wigton on the 05:15 but it was sent back to Kingmoor and repaired

 

[SeanG]

When more 68s arrive, do people see that these will take over the loco hauled stuff, or would it not be feasible?

 

[47802]

Why safety concerns? you could make a comment about reliability as they don't seen to have been particularly reliable of late surprise surprise, some of which I think has been down to the coaching stock as well as the Loco's but then what do you expect with 50 year old Loco's and 40 year old coaching stock.

Surely the Manchester & Liverpool issues are mainly down to 319's not being very reliable either, but of course there are those on here who say we should continue to use old stock until they literally fall apart.

The DBSO's have been modified to work with Class 37's.

I saw the Lancaster working yesterday at Arnside it was on time, but I believe the inbound working for it had been cancelled

I overheard a normal passenger commenting about it being a very old train that was difficult to get out of

 

[northwichcat]

I was on the 37s yesterday, whilst (very) delayed, they did both run. 37423 failed in service at Wigton on the 05:15 but it was sent back to Kingmoor and repaired

If they returned to service yesterday before failing then it suggests it was nothing that rules them out for a longer period.

When more 68s arrive, do people see that these will take over the loco hauled stuff, or would it not be feasible?

Loco-hauled is an interim solution. It wouldn't have happened at all if TPE hadn't been forced to release 170s early.
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Surely the Manchester & Liverpool issues are mainly down to 319's not being very reliable either, but of course there are those on here who say we should continue to use old stock until they literally fall apart.

There were a number of short formed DMU services on Friday despite the cancellations due to failed 319s. Like I said normally they short form the DMU services to cover for the failed 319s but on Friday there was a DMU shortage already so the failed 319s meant cancelled peak time services.

 

[Bevan Price]

I overheard a normal passenger commenting about it being a very old train that was difficult to get out of

Yes, there are now lots of people who don't remember the time when you had to open the coach door by yourself, using a door handle. Many routes have not seen loco hauled stock & hand-operated doors for over 25 years.

 

[47802]

Yes, there are now lots of people who don't remember the time when you had to open the coach door by yourself, using a door handle. Many routes have not seen loco hauled stock & hand-operated doors for over 25 years.

Indeed so, the Window Bars required for that route don't help either

You've got to think that as soon as more DMU's become available to Northern there might be an early end to these trains despite what it says on that franchise improvements map.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I've seen posted on another forum that the hired in 37s on on the Cumbrian Coast have currently been taken out of service over safety concerns and apparently that was the underlying reason behind the Manchester and Liverpool area issues on Friday evening.

Can you provide any evidence that is true, other than you read it on an internet forum?

I can't see any Northern ECS movements from Manchester/Liverpool - Cumbria on Friday of DMUs to cover for loco hauled services, so how was it the underlying reason for issues in the Liverpool/Manchester areas?

 

[northwichcat]

Can you provide any evidence that is true, other than you read it on an internet forum?

I can't see any Northern ECS movements from Manchester/Liverpool - Cumbria on Friday of DMUs to cover for loco hauled services, so how was it the underlying reason for issues in the Liverpool/Manchester areas?

Other than the person who posted it usually posts reliable information about transport in the Liverpool area, no, hence the question mark at the end of the thread title.

Don't forget there are some DMUs used mainly in the Manchester and Liverpool areas which start the day at Preston C.S. and Blackpool North Car. M.D. so one or more of those diagrams could have started with 2 carriages instead of 4, leaving DMUs spare for Cumbria.

 

[QueensCurve]

There were a number of short formed DMU services on Friday despite the cancellations due to failed 319s. Like I said normally they short form the DMU services to cover for the failed 319s but on Friday there was a DMU shortage already so the failed 319s meant cancelled peak time services.

There was at least 1 long formed DMU on the Cumbrian Coast on Friday. This is 2C44 1054 Carlisle to Barrow approaching workington.

 

[theblackwatch]

There was at least 1 long formed DMU on the Cumbrian Coast on Friday. This is 2C44 1054 Carlisle to Barrow approaching workington.

Which is booked a DMU so doesn't indicate any shortage....

 

[30907]

Which is booked a DMU so doesn't indicate any shortage....

....but might suggest units being shuffled about?

 

[55z]

What you have forgotten about is that "Northern" give up operating at the end of March when Arriva Rail North take over and DRS have a 2 year contract to supply 2 trains for the Cumbrian Coast services (with a possible extension of another 2 years) funded by the Dept of Transport (Look on the side of the coaches for the Dept of T name) Another scaremongering story put out to scare passengers away from rail transport (Safety).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

DRS are to make a 3rd rake available as a "hot spare" so it looks more like it is a reliability issue than anything else.

 

[12CSVT]

When more 68s arrive, do people see that these will take over the loco hauled stuff, or would it not be feasible?

There is a short section of the Cumbrian Coast line where 68s aren't cleared

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There is a short section of the Cumbrian Coast line where 68s aren't cleared

Will they do whatever checks/works are needed to get them cleared for that section?

 

[QueensCurve]

There is a short section of the Cumbrian Coast line where 68s aren't cleared

Where is that?

 

[Blindtraveler]

14:35x CAR left on time on Friday afternoon and was most definately a 37

 

[northwichcat]

What you have forgotten about is that "Northern" give up operating at the end of March when Arriva Rail North take over and DRS have a 2 year contract to supply 2 trains for the Cumbrian Coast services (with a possible extension of another 2 years) funded by the Dept of Transport (Look on the side of the coaches for the Dept of T name) Another scaremongering story put out to scare passengers away from rail transport (Safety).

Arriva have signed a 2 year contract? Do you have a source for that? The ITT mentioned continuing to use loco-hauled sets until the autumn of 2017, so a 2 year contract would suggest either they are not expecting to get the GWR 150s on time or expecting North West electrification to be delayed further.

Who says it's passenger safety concerns? Could it not be the drivers or ASLEF who have expressed safety concerns from using the 37s which relate to the drivers not the passengers?

 

[87015]

37409 0515 Carlisle-Preston
37423 0546 Barrow-Carlisle

So not suspended at all then.

 

[sprinterguy]

Where is that?

According to the sectional appendix, they're prohibited on the Down line through Parton station between Bransty Junction and Parton South Junction.

 

[northwichcat]

DRS are to make a 3rd rake available as a "hot spare" so it looks more like it is a reliability issue than anything else.

37409 0515 Carlisle-Preston
37423 0546 Barrow-Carlisle

So not suspended at all then.

I imagine someone got the wrong end of the stick from the report of the additional rake.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Wrong end of the stick? Wrong stick more like. The whole thing was a fabrication, perhaps this source isn't that reliable after all.

68s have been through Parton. 68004 and 68005 top 'n' tailed a train from Kingmoor - Barrow Docks via the coast on 22/09/15. I'm not aware of any between Barrow Docks and Carnforth, but that doesn't necessarily mean none have.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/21448174969/

 

[QueensCurve]

Wrong end of the stick? Wrong stick more like. The whole thing was a fabrication, perhaps this source isn't that reliable after all.

68s have been through Parton. 68004 and 68005 top 'n' tailed a train from Kingmoor - Barrow Docks via the coast on 22/09/15. I'm not aware of any between Barrow Docks and Carnforth, but that doesn't necessarily mean none have.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/21448174969/

That piccie looks like Barrow. Any pictures of them going through Parton?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Not that I'm aware of but I have found a photo from Jan 2015 of a Class 68 l/e move along the whole Cumbrian Coast. It states it returned to Carlisle via Shap due to being out of guage northbound at Parton but that Barrow Docks - Carlisle service passed through Parton. It couldn't get to Carlisle otherwise.

 

[chubs]

DRS are to make a 3rd rake available as a "hot spare" so it looks more like it is a reliability issue than anything else.

Will it have a DBSO as well?

 

[Greybeard33]

What you have forgotten about is that "Northern" give up operating at the end of March when Arriva Rail North take over and DRS have a 2 year contract to supply 2 trains for the Cumbrian Coast services (with a possible extension of another 2 years) funded by the Dept of Transport (Look on the side of the coaches for the Dept of T name) Another scaremongering story put out to scare passengers away from rail transport (Safety).

Arriva have signed a 2 year contract? Do you have a source for that? The ITT mentioned continuing to use loco-hauled sets until the autumn of 2017, so a 2 year contract would suggest either they are not expecting to get the GWR 150s on time or expecting North West electrification to be delayed further.

If DRS has a 2 year contract with DfT to supply the loco-hauled sets, it presumably started in May 2015, so will terminate in May 2017 unless extended.

 

[Tugzrule]

68s are now cleared in both directions on the Cumbrian Coast and have been for a few months now.

Also, any units that have been doubled up to 4 cars on that line (with the exception of the last one from Whitehaven - Carlisle) are at present only running as 4 car, which is too long for the majority of the stations on that line, because its one of the few ways of swapping units around at Barrow or for refuelling/maintenance of the units used on the Carlisle - Hexham shuttles

 

[Penmorfa]

Indeed so, the Window Bars required for that route don't help either.

The bars are on the windows to stop you putting your hands, etc out. But you have to put your hand out of the window to open the door. No wonder the passengers are confused!

 

[221129]

The bars are on the windows to stop you putting your hands, etc out. But you have to put your hand out of the window to open the door. No wonder the passengers are confused!

No they aren't. They are to stop people leaning their heads out.